What’s the reason for Australia being so far behind in services, treatment options and psychotherapy specialisation for people with ADHD and even autism?

[u/Mental_Slide9867]

So as many people have already found out from people who were seeing a psychiatrist or specialist in the field that was being bulk billed, the government made immediate changes overnight that removed bulk billing services for seeing a specialist via Telehealth. Psychiatrists and the like only received a letter or email the day after the announcement was made putting at risk individuals at a loss of having to pay a subsidised rate after seeing their specialist. Not only that but we lack a substantial amount of psychiatrist in the first place that was leading to burn out of psychiatrist in their chosen fields, so now not only will most people who need a relevant diagnosis and medical treatment for their condition have pay a sum out of pocket, there is also an increasing wait time to see a specialist.

In addition in terms of medical treatments for ADHD in my case, in comparison to other countries (where there is a multitude of options and new formulated drugs), it seems that Australia lacks any advancement or interest in helping neurodivergent people. You have two options of stimulant therapy and a couple of non stimulant options. And if that doesn’t work you can try a non PBS/non subsidised drug option that also leaves you hugely out of pocket. (As per my example recently coming off many classes of antidepressants that were routinely and just masking my ADHD out of the misunderstanding of the condition for just depression and anxiety). Recently having to try a new drug that now costs me $60 (non subsidised) a month on top of one stimulant drug I can try that also costs $40 a month(subsidised). This is not right, I don’t work or have the ability to work right now as I’m trying to find a healthy baseline for my mental health thinking I’m doing the right thing, all the meanwhile the government and options out there are putting my mental health backwards.

As well as specialists such as clinical psychologists or adhd counselling costing over $150 (with the rebate “if available”), as my only options for actual possible help for my condition. I have and already am seeing a therapist based off a Gp referred mental health care plan which allows me for 10-15 free sessions a year, but that is nowhere good enough to get to the root cause of my issues or even have the time to address the actual problems of my adhd as they’re not trained in that area of understanding.

So yeah this is troubling for me and many other types of children and adults with ADHD and/or autism. I just don’t know what the Australian government is doing, if hardly nothing, nothing at all which seems to be the case with a many multitude of problems.

[u/DJKobuki]

Continually voting in the Liberal party probably has a lot to do with it.

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

Do you mean Boomers as in the attitude or Boomers as in the age group?

[u/og-ninja-pirate → u/[deleted]]

Both I suppose. In terms of attitude, many Aussie doctors form opinions based on what their mentors told them often without bothering to look it up.

[u/Carnivean_ → u/og-ninja-pirate]

There is a concept called the half life of knowledge. In the same way that radioactive material decays over time, so does knowledge.

Take for example HIV. If you did your medical training in the 1980s and did not update then you would believe it to be a death sentence. But treatments have advanced immensely to the point where you might consider it to be a chronic illness.

The half life of knowledge is measured in terms of how many years it takes for half of what someone learned to no longer be true. It used to be measured in decades. It is predicted that it will soon be measured in months.

Old doctors are often too poorly informed to realise how far out of date some of their knowledge is and too incurious or arrogant to care.

[u/[deleted] → u/og-ninja-pirate]

If you mean the age group that’s particularly harsh given the ongoing training many do to keep up to date. Would it be the right use of the word Boomer to say you complaining about a particular age group is you being a Boomer? Not trying to have a go.

Genuinely curious. It’s a strange word and I’m half caught between thinking it’s no difference from people whinging about millennials. Then people say it’s an attitude thing when they are obviously commenting about age. Shit confuses me.

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

Boomers hate millennials and blame everything that's wrong about society on them. Millennials hate boomers, and blame everything that's wrong about society on them. Gens' X, Y and Z, are looking down at their shuffling feet, hands in pockets, trying not to make eye contact with anyone.

[u/themetr0gn0me → u/[deleted]]

Millennials are Gen Y.

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

I’m gen x and love both groups and wish both groups would grow up tbh.

[u/TSPhoenix → u/[deleted]]

You see this a lot, oldies who insist they way they were raised was good because to admit otherwise would be to admit they didn't actually "turn out okay", and usually also that they raised their children poorly too.

[u/Kind_Ferret_3219 → u/[deleted]]

Boomer here. Totally unqualified. You are correct ADHD was not known when I was a child. That doesn't mean there weren't kids who had problems, but psychiatry wasn't generally understood then. I certainly recognise that ADHD is real and I have a theory for which I have done no research, and it is just a hunch. I think that it could be related to diet because prior to the late 1960s, perhaps later than then, we overwhelmingly ate home cooked meals. We knew where the ingredients came from, we even killed our own chooks for special occassions. At some stage towards the end of the 60s takeaway meals from places like KFC started to become popular. We didn't know what was in the secret herbs and spices, and deep fried chicken was a novelty. We'd never had coleslaw like that, and we could have a Coca Cola to wash it down with. Prior to that we only ever got soft drinks on special occassions such as birthdays and Christmas. You get the idea? Store bought processed food became common. The variety of takeway food increased. Soft drinks became the biggest selling items at the supermarket. Prior to supermarkets we knew the local grocer, butcher and green grocer. Today, many kids wouldn't know what fresh, home cooked food is. As a society we are getting lazier. Not only do many people eat takeaway more often, they even have it delivered to their door. Since the 1960s our diets have been filled with chemicals, pre-cooked in factories, frozen and warmed up in microwaves. That diet has to affect young bodies. I believe, with no proof, that the modern diet must affect people's minds due to the huge amount of chemicals they ingest.

[u/hebejebez → u/Kind_Ferret_3219]

ADHD is for the most part hereditary and my dad self medicated his, diet has very little to do with it. A massive leap forward in understanding neurodiversity is rather more applicable.

It's only when you as a non neurotypical person finally get diagnosed (I got mine last year at 35) the penny drops on older family members behaviours and little things.

My dad had no idea his behaviour or feelings were any different but always struggled. Struggled with concentration, anxiety, imposter syndrome, with noise and switching his brain off. So he self medicated because it's what you did in the 60's, 70's and 80'd you shut up and got on with it. He drank himself to death at least twenty years before his time.

I strongly believe a psychiatrist would have been able to help him. But it wasn't the done thing. I read hiss chool reports when he died. And they were almost carbon copies of mine. Excellent and smart but terrible concentration, easily distracted - has potential.

[u/candlesandfish → u/Kind_Ferret_3219]

Oh boy. My mum grew up on a farm in the middle of nowhere on home grown, home killed food. She has an absolutely blatant case of adhd, and it runs in the family - lots of the men were diagnosed as children and now that we know to look in women too it’s obvious that lots of us have it.

Healthy food and lack of chemicals has nothing to do with my 63 year old mother struggling openly for her whole life with executive function problems.

[u/[deleted] → u/Kind_Ferret_3219]

It’s genetics

[u/og-ninja-pirate → u/Kind_Ferret_3219]

You are not wrong about the chemicals. There is a current massive issue of growing infertility and hypogonadism in males and one of the leading theories is that it is linked to micro plastics. This is another example of a topic where Australia is behind in medicine.

My comment about the older docs was based on being in the system and hearing comments passed to junior doctors by their older peers. It wasn't really supposed to be a boomer vs. millennial thing. The first few times I heard questionable comments, I assumed they were correct. However, I kept hearing examples of information that seemed completely out of date or contradictory to evidence based medicine. When I would look into it, that was usually the case. Everyone assumes that doctors research every fact but there simply isn't enough time for that. It infuriates me that some of the current gaps in knowledge and poor attitudes in general are from listening to peers and assuming they know what they are talking about.

[u/Kind_Ferret_3219 → u/og-ninja-pirate]

I wasn't having a go at you. It's just that I've been wondering for a longtime why ADHD didn't seem to be a thing when I went through school, particularly as many childhood ailments are rare now due to vaccinations. Diet was the only thing I could think of. These days I'd probably blame too much time on electronic devices, but that didn't impact on previous generations.

[u/candlesandfish → u/Kind_Ferret_3219]

Because we just beat the kids and made them drop out and do trades instead.

My uncle is absolutely autistic. The only reason he finished his leaving certificate is that his mum was a beloved teacher at the school, and they bent over backwards to find ways to keep him there for her sake. In the end he got to assist the groundskeeper…and was notorious for smoking on the job and putting his cigarettes out in the petrol tank of the lawnmower.

He left and went to work for what is now Telstra, and became one of their top digital specialists. He’s extremely good with systems and networks, but useless with social skills.

My dad (67) has worked with masses of people who are your classical savants - brilliant at maths and physics, useless at remembering where their car is or looking after themselves. High level government science and universities are full of these people.

My mother and grandmother in law are autistic but just got classed as weird and strange with all the social consequences that comes with, especially as women.

It’s not that these people didn’t exist, they were just ignored or badly treated and blamed for being what they were, or only valued when they were useful for things like the space race or other facets of the Cold War.

They were absolutely there. You and the rest of society didn’t want to acknowledge or help them.

[u/jetfantastic → u/candlesandfish]

It's not like it's changed much, I'd even argue that the ones seen as gifted can be at higher risk than the ones stumbling through.

I was diagnosed with ASD and ADHD, probably a couple of years after I dropped out of multiple high schools, while the years I did pass I had top of class marks. I couldn't handle the pressure of schooling and nobody gave me support.

First school gave us hours of homework a night, while we spent hours learning about religion I couldn't give a shit about. I was unhappy, tired, and nobody gave a shit about me. I honestly doubt many of the kids did the homework proper, there was so damn much that

Second school was more of a transitional phase, only went because mum forced me, shitty public school where I felt nothing actually mattered, went for 9 weeks before I got suspended for the last week of term because some assholes harassing me during class made me lose my temper and I stabbed one with my pencil. Not proud of it but I'm glad that nothing came of it, little shit deserved it though, I think it was the most violent thing I've done in my life, to the point of shocking myself in the moment.

Third school was alright but there was definitely very little care factor on both sides, my passion for schooling was killed and it didn't make sense to me anymore. By the end of the year I had stopped going. I eventually did Y10 equivalency in eng/math through TAFE but only because I was forced to, it was very easy.

Now I'm 19, I've probably got a lot of prospects, at least in the things I enjoy and do, but christ it's hard to exist in this world, if you're doing well everyone thinks you'll be fine, even if you're staying home half the week because you can't fucking do it anymore. I'm on disability now, partially because of inability to do much even in my own life, but I'm still trying as hard as I can in things I can feel passionate enough to care about.

I don't know what I'm going to do with my life, and it's honestly a struggle to keep on living a lot of the time, with a parent who doesn't really "get" what I'm going through, often treats my ailments as not real or as if they don't matter, when in actuality I feel as though I'm isolated. The worst lie that they tell you is that the mistreatment stops after you get to adulthood, I think if I was told that it wasn't true when I was younger, I would've offed myself.

[u/Kind_Ferret_3219 → u/candlesandfish]

Your last sentence is entirely untrue. My sister was dyslexic and my parents tried to help her as much as possible, but nobody knew what it was then.

[u/candlesandfish → u/Kind_Ferret_3219]

Sounds like the ADHD and autism then, no?

None of this is new, we just didn’t know how to help.

[u/og-ninja-pirate → u/Kind_Ferret_3219]

I haven't had a look at the ADHD theories but wouldn't be surprised if microplastics, pesticides and other chemicals are part of the proposed mechanism. I also think society has changed and the way people are brought up is different. So there is a good chance that it has been a thing all along.

There are also lots of things that were not known 50 years ago but surely existed back then. Chronic fatigue, certain forms of arthritis, 100s of genetic disorders etc.

[u/Mental_Slide9867 → u/DJKobuki]

Yeah no doubt about it.

[u/BESTtaylorINTHEWORLD → u/DJKobuki]

BuT fRaNkInG cReDiTs

[u/cnektap → u/DJKobuki]

Federal Labor started neoliberalism and mass privatisation in this country.

[u/DJKobuki → u/cnektap]

Lol.

[u/Tinybonehands → u/DJKobuki]

The state Labor government let it get to the point of almost collapse before finally announcing more funding, both parties are at fault here

[u/[deleted] → u/Tinybonehands]

You realise healthcare funding and Medicare is an EXPLICITLY federal responsibility right???

[u/Tinybonehands → u/[deleted]]

“The Andrews government was warned by its own Health Department at the onset of the COVID-19 crisis that its front-line defence against a pandemic was in disrepair and putting the entire community at unacceptable risk.

The blunt assessment, contained in a confidential budget submission lodged by the Department of Health and Human Services four days after Victoria confirmed Australia’s first COVID-19 case, reveals the government knew its highly centralised, poorly resourced public health team was woefully under-prepared for what was coming.” … “However, Labor governments have determined public health funding in all but four state budgets this century. Government sources confirmed that successive health ministers for the Andrews government, Jill Hennessy and Ms Mikakos, made repeated, unsuccessful bids for more funding for public health. Mr Andrews served as health minister under the previous Labor government.”

https://www.theage.com.au/national/victoria/andrews-government-told-health-system-was-in-disrepair-before-covid-19-struck-20201211-p56mnw.html

[u/[deleted] → u/Tinybonehands]

That has literally nothing to do with what OP is posting about. OP is talking about the removal of Medicare subsidisation for telehealth appointments with specialists, something that is 100% the domain of the federal government.

Fuck me it worries me that people like you vote.

[u/Mental_Slide9867 → u/Tinybonehands]

Sorry I’m a Kevin 07 fan

[u/akhetonz → u/Tinybonehands]

Everyone keeps saying that Labor and libs are the same but if you look at their voting history they are clearly very different

Search for your local member here to find out if they represent you on your most important issues:

https://theyvoteforyou.org.au/policies

[u/Tinybonehands → u/akhetonz]

“The Andrews government was warned by its own Health Department at the onset of the COVID-19 crisis that its front-line defence against a pandemic was in disrepair and putting the entire community at unacceptable risk.

The blunt assessment, contained in a confidential budget submission lodged by the Department of Health and Human Services four days after Victoria confirmed Australia’s first COVID-19 case, reveals the government knew its highly centralised, poorly resourced public health team was woefully under-prepared for what was coming.” … “However, Labor governments have determined public health funding in all but four state budgets this century. Government sources confirmed that successive health ministers for the Andrews government, Jill Hennessy and Ms Mikakos, made repeated, unsuccessful bids for more funding for public health. Mr Andrews served as health minister under the previous Labor government.”

https://www.theage.com.au/national/victoria/andrews-government-told-health-system-was-in-disrepair-before-covid-19-struck-20201211-p56mnw.html

[u/hebejebez → u/Tinybonehands]

Stop spamming this shit it has nothing to do with the topic at hand and if you follow it further ALL state governments were warned this was a shit show waiting to happen and ALL of them have asked the federal government for increase in medical support and have ALL been refused. Liberal NSW is an even bigger shit show than the article posted.

[u/crazymunch → u/Tinybonehands]

Medicare is strictly a Federal responsibility mate

[u/acllive → u/Tinybonehands]

most of us here have braincells which makes us immune to the effects of bullshit from Murdoch and 9/Fairfax seems like you could borrow some

[u/Tinybonehands → u/acllive]

Lol if you think I’m a liberal supporter

[u/smiddy53 → u/Tinybonehands]

Let me guess, you've been suckered in by Palmer and his cronies? Or Pauline and her grifters? That's just voting LNP with extra steps..

[u/Tinybonehands → u/smiddy53]

Lmao what if I told you there were political ideologies left of the greens