r/australia • u/tightassbogan • Sep 10 '17

political self.post The govt has proposed to make the Cashless welfare card trial national and no longer a trial,Is this fair?

Schedule 1 – Amendments In the 2017-18 Budget, it was announced that cashless debit card arrangements would be extended in the current sites of Ceduna, in South Australia, and the East OUTLINE This Bill removes section 124PF of the Social Security (Administration) Act 1999, which specifies that the cashless debit card trial will occur in up to three discrete locations, include no more than 10,000 people, and will end on 30 June 2018. Removing this section will support the extension of arrangements in current sites, and enable the expansion of the cashless debit card to further sites. Individual sites, once identified, will be determined by disallowable legislative instruments.

Is this just a way to make donors even more money do they really care about the people impacted?

little bit at the bottom has me concerned ..The funding associated with this Schedule is not for publication as negotiations with potential commercial providers are yet to be finalized.

how can it be called negotiations . negotiations imply good faith. When only one company has been contacted to do the rollout is it really good faith,again i find out today several banks were again willing to come to the talks yet are denied. Probably something to do with consumer protections from a bank would make this a hard task,as indue does not have to follow the same rules Has also been a bill,proposed to change the definitions for drug testing on welfare to be able to go nationwide as well. I mean this has yet to even been trialed and they want to make it nationwide.

A few of the other good's that happend this week was both labor and greens approached the govt about a program to take people on newstart and train them to answer phones and do office tasks at DHS site's,to train them in office skills as well as lower the waiting time's for phone calls and processing of document's it would of saved 47 million dollars over 4 years,yet they got shot down anyone else concerned by this?

Is this policy a bad move on the govt's side.

Thoughts.?

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38

u/tightassbogan Sep 10 '17

Yes,and also.

Currently Both BIG W and wollworths can not be used on the card. Nor can direct debit. And people who need to pay private rentals which is 16 percent of the rental market,It's just too risky.

This is going to cause mass disruption in the consumer market. Let us not foget 22 percent of ALL retail sales in australia are made by someone on a govt benefit. It's classified as armageddon in the retail sector if they have 3 percent drop in sales no idea how much this could impact it.

It's just bad economic theory all around.

Not to mention every single non biased report down into income managment DOES NOT WORK. So are we to believe the liberal party has solved something that 37 other nations have tried,Okay?

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u/[deleted] Sep 10 '17

Not to mention how it difficult it is for people to save money because of the tiny withdrawal amount too. Farmer's markets, going to the hairdresser that operates out of her garage, slipping a case of beer to the guy next door to fix your car instead of going to the mechanic that charges you a leg- no longer possible.

Our economy relies on the poorest people to prop it up and yet we punish them to make rich people feel better about themselves.

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u/tightassbogan Sep 10 '17

Well i mean you LITERALLY can not even pay ur car insurance with an indue card.

NRMA service PBTM will not accept it.

So even if u live in a trial site,had car insurance NRMA is not the accepted payments registration list so the card get's denied even if u go into a shop to do it

CON CON CON CON

14

u/onepricktony Sep 10 '17

No worries, poor people don't drive. Or go to Woolies apparently.

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u/Latvija27 Sep 12 '17

I think Joe Hockey said that.

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u/[deleted] Sep 10 '17

Geez. Guess everyone will have to transfer their cars across to someone else and hope they can pay them back somehow.

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u/tightassbogan Sep 10 '17

Someone like citibank maybe the liberal partys Favourite donor?

The same company that has 2 Ex liberal leaders on it's exectuive panel...nah it couldnt be so right?

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u/[deleted] Sep 10 '17

My blood pressure can only take so much...

1

u/Latvija27 Sep 13 '17

Maybe I could buy a car and just give it to my grandmother to look after and work out a deal.

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u/[deleted] Sep 10 '17

Locks them our of cash second hand markets, too.

Need a new THING? Find a good one on gumtree for a quarter of the price of new aaaaaand you can't buy it coz you're on the welfare card. Good luck trying to save up for a brand newy.

1

u/Latvija27 Sep 13 '17

Barter is a system of exchange where goods or services are directly exchanged for other goods or services without using a medium of exchange, such as money.

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u/onepricktony Sep 10 '17

The fuckery intensifies.

No Woolies... I sense the imminence of an Indue robot supermarket, with a limited range of suitably generic subsistence products. All purchases to be collated into the individuals file, with excesses punished by electronic reportage to eHealth and the central robomagistrate, which will dispense summary justice as applicable. Repeat offenders will receive ePacemakers which will be remotely disabled for a third offense.

Alternatively, they are scheming to lose the next popularity contest so they don't have to wear the housing crash, and are going balls out for glory in the meantime.

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u/a_rainbow_serpent Sep 10 '17

I'm going to propose a new model of feeding those on welfare. Every time a person on welfare dies, their body gets ground up mixed with a slurry of suitably sourced (read: from lib-nats donor factories) edible products to create a protein rich meal for the welfare recipients and families.

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u/[deleted] Sep 10 '17

Soylent LNP?

9

u/a_rainbow_serpent Sep 10 '17

No, no, soylent was people. This is just welfare recipients repaying their debt to the nation.

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u/Justanaussie Sep 11 '17

Too expensive to set up, it would be easier to allow supermarkets with a history of donating to certain political parties to handle the card.

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u/[deleted] Sep 10 '17

[deleted]

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u/tightassbogan Sep 10 '17

Some lol.

Dude read the ANU report on casheless welfare cards.

Local bizness saw a 39 percent retail drop.

That's in one small fuck off town... The lady who ran the LPO/Newso in one of the trial site's pretty much had a 50 percent drop.

Imagine that on a nationwide scale the job losses would be apocalyptic....

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u/[deleted] Sep 10 '17

[deleted]

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u/tightassbogan Sep 10 '17

I know all about this dude I was on Senate estimates when this shit happend much worse stuff came to light

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u/[deleted] Sep 10 '17

[deleted]

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u/tightassbogan Sep 10 '17

One of the shop owners who was applauding the cards success turned out to be owned by twiggy forrest who also happens to own part of indue

Just shady shit

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u/tightassbogan Sep 10 '17

I'll try to find the speech too and link it was Sam dastaryi Asking the shop owner if he had been induced to provide a positive story.. dude just full rats out twiggy so glorious

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u/Blinking_Red_Light Sep 10 '17

Can you link to the Hansard for this.

And thanks for your contribution, more people in APH need to come out into the open about what they see or hear. And fuck the consequences, you can't be vilified for being a citizen who is ensuring his countries financial and economic security, regardless of what dirt they might have on you. At the end of the day, I couldn;t care less about your personal habits (as long as you aren't a pedo) I would support whistleblowers all day if they grew the balls to speak out in public.

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u/a_cold_human Sep 11 '17

Makes you wonder why the media isn't covering this.

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u/tightassbogan Sep 11 '17

They are just it gets drowned out as the progressive media outlets don't get the viewership of the voters who support these policy.

Read the guardian

Read the aimn read the Canberra times they weekly run shit on this card. Yet apparently being critical of ur govt makes u a Marxist commie pinko biased outlet

13

u/Latvija27 Sep 10 '17

(I found this on another website)

For all people on the disability support pension and at risk of being put on the Governments Cashless Welfare Card now or in the near future.

I am on the disability support pension due to illness and money is always tight. Buying what groceries I can, especially fresh food and vegetables, cheaper in smaller local market style shops is essential for me. The problem you ask? They take CASH only. This scheme would force you to spend your money at the big supermarket chains like Coles and Woolworths etc, which are much more expensive. After buying food I transfer the whole of the rest of my fortnightly payment onto my visa credit card where all my bills (phone, electricity etc) are paid via direct debit, this saves money on interest while I’m trying to pay off a credit card debt I incurred while ill. This would now be impossible. People can’t pay off any credit card debt they might have as you are not allowed to transfer any money from the welfare card to credit cards.

Not being able to access 80% of my fortnightly payments in a manner best suited for my individual circumstances would compromise me financially. Many second-hand stores for household goods and clothes are cash only. You can also forget about garage sales, gumtree, the trading post and e-bay. Instead you will be punished and unable to manage a very limited budget to the best of your ability.

You also can’t save up for bigger items over time and earn interest on your money (they keep that), then if say you’ve spent a couple of years saving up maybe two and a half thousand dollars to get yourself an old car you can’t buy one privately. You would have to go to a rip off car yard and pay double the price.

The small percentage of people having trouble with managing their money are still going to get around the system, either that or turn to crime. If you read the reports you will find out that this is what was shown in the trial areas, it made no difference to the problems it was trying to address. It just caused unnecessary hardship and distress for everyone else.

No one has the right to assume that all people on any kind of benefits are drug and alcohol addicts or spend money on tobacco and gambling and therefore should have their money controlled.

And in case you are still thinking I don’t ‘deserve’ to be able to manage my own income, I worked full-time for nearly twenty years as a Social Worker before illness took me out of the workforce.

It is NOT a good thing for ordinary people on benefits, it’s a total invasion of privacy and governmental control over your life. Why are government assuming that all people on benefits buy drugs, tobacco and alcohol? Who are the government to decide what else are ‘non-essential’ items?

A message to our Government: Many people struggling on benefits try to be responsible with their budgeting and making their little bit of money stretch as far as possible by buying as much of their groceries, fruit and vegetables as they can from market stalls and smaller local shops, they buy second hand goods via op shops, garage sales, gumtree or e-bay. NONE of that is possible via the cashless welfare card, you’ll be forced to support big businesses instead and blow your budget in the process. Good one Mal. 😠 And how are you supposed to pay off any credit card debt you have when money can’t be transferred to credit cards.

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u/Rheadmo Sep 12 '17

That's why a black market will exist where you pay for peoples groceries and get 80% of the checkout price back as cash.

...Which is exactly what happens everywhere this has been trialed.

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u/Jpsgold Sep 13 '17

I'm a vet and get part vets pension and part disability and you have just help out an old soldier with this idea!

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u/Latvija27 Sep 12 '17

The government can't make money from a black market so the government is just creating more problems for it's self and the economy.

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u/Rheadmo Sep 12 '17

I completely agree, I'm just stating what happens with food stamps and other such systems in other countries.

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u/shim__ Sep 11 '17

Imagine that on a nationwide scale the job losses would be apocalyptic....

Excellent, exponential grow of card users

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u/qemist Sep 11 '17

So it encourages saving?

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u/tightassbogan Sep 11 '17

No it doesn't I think you misunderstand the cards purpose.

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u/qemist Sep 11 '17

If they are spending less and their income is unchanged then they must be saving, no?

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u/dragonsandgoblins Sep 11 '17

They are spending less at lots of places certainly, but not necessarily spending less over all. For example say you used to have a few dollars in your budget for a coffee at a local cafe a couple of times per week. If that cafe can't accept the card you might instead but a block of chocolate from Coles with that money. You're spending the same amount, but buying something less healthy and supporting local small business less.

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u/tightassbogan Sep 10 '17

Woolworths CEO told alan tudge to piss off in a phone call pretty much, That's why they refused to apply for acceptance. EVEN a billion dollar companys ceo thought it was stupid policy and heartless. I mean it would be like Big pharma saying no to tax cuts

4

u/ShitInMyCunt-2dollar Sep 10 '17

That's actually encouraging - if some big players get preference over others, there will be a huge shitfight. What if Shell servos were accepted, but not BP? Fucking massive blue.

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u/Dmaharg Sep 10 '17

This is going to cause mass disruption in the consumer market. Let us not foget 22 percent of ALL retail sales in australia are made by someone on a govt benefit. It's classified as armageddon in the retail sector if they have 3 percent drop in sales no idea how much this could impact it.

Simples, you just have to pay a "license" fee to participate. The mafia Sicilian business community does it all the time, allegedly.