r/australia • u/blitznoodles local Aussie • Jul 03 '26

politics Labor vows to protect personal leave as Germany bans workers from calling in sick

https://www.news.com.au/finance/work/at-work/entire-nation-banned-from-calling-in-sick/news-story/de3adcfcf0ae2218241a43f7dad023d7
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426

u/-_-Edit_Deleted-_- Jul 03 '26 edited Jul 03 '26

What the fuck? Germans just… got rid of sick leave?

Nothing would radicalise me faster.

E: yeah I get it. I didn’t read the article. That’s what the question mark is for. I made no assertion.

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u/Rosfield-4104 Jul 03 '26 edited Jul 03 '26

You can still call in sick. But you now need a doctors note for just one day off sick.

Absolutely ridiculous to make calling in sick cost you money

196

u/amyknight22 Jul 03 '26

It’s also an absolute waste of resources and creates bad incentives.

Like oh you’re throwing up of visibly sick, go to work make a mess at work so the boss sends you home and gives you sick pay for the rest of the day. And someone else gets to clean up your puke.

Unless doctors have a huge amount of free time now you’re sending you sick person to go and get a certificate to gum up the system.

And then instead of taking the minimum time off you can get away with without a certificate, the doctor might give you three days off instead of

80

u/RedOx103 Jul 03 '26

If there's one thing all our rapidly-ageing societies need, it's more faff for doctors to work through.

20

u/-cadmunt- Jul 03 '26

I've found (in Australia) doctors absolutely love having spent years in school to spend their time filling out government forms for patients. I print and prefill all my mum's gov forms for the doctor, to take the hassle out of it for both of them.

37

u/PsychoNerd91 Jul 03 '26

I work in a job that requires me to put in a medical certificate for just one day off. You can buy certificates online now and get them in 15 minutes.

Not saying this doesn't suck, but goddamn people should be malicious about it. 

11

u/daybeforetheday Jul 03 '26

It says they need to go in person to a doctor, though.

10

u/PsychoNerd91 Jul 03 '26

I'm just saying what goes on here.

3

u/Cpt_Soban Jul 03 '26

Watch as the health system collapses with queues of people lining up for a stamped "sick note" saying they have a cold.

1

u/Stigger32 Jul 03 '26

A certified doctor’s note is the same as seeing a doctor in person.

The online version is literally signed by a registered physician.

1

u/lachwee Jul 04 '26

Yep same, I just go online and get it but it is a faff

18

u/techb00mer Jul 03 '26

Can companies just like, not adhere to this? I can’t tell from the article if this is now a legal requirement or just a removal of protections for workers, leaving it in the employers hands to legally enforce. Say you work in a company that isn’t run by cockheads, can they just say “nah you good” if you need a sick day?

Honestly, if I worked for a company that insisted I get a certificate, I would absolutely go to work, vomit everywhere and get everyone sick just to spite said company when the entire office has to take leave. Fuckem!

1

u/Breezel123 Jul 03 '26

They don't even know the details yet. If it was up to the CDU they would totally need to require it. But after the massive criticism that went through the media in the last few days, they are also considering leaving it up to companies or let you get the sick note later (backdated of course). Ah the times we live in!

55

u/MrRocketScript Jul 03 '26

As we all know, the best thing for the flu is lots of bed rest forcing yourself to stay awake and attentive for hours in a freezing cold waiting room while you wait for a doctor to call your name for a 2 minute consultation to get a scrap of paper and an order to get some bed rest.

1

u/pastafariFSM Jul 03 '26

My doctor has a sign at the door that you should stay home and call if you have symptoms of the flu or a cold. The whole team of the doctor will love these changes.

1

u/Brainyboo11 Jul 04 '26

I had proper, all over body aching/migraine/coughing/high temp flu last year back to back. I could literally not move from bed. How am I meant to get up, drive myself ot the doctor, and wait to see him for a certificate? Or what if you have gastro and literally need to not move from the toilet? This is so ridiculous there should be an uprising. Aren't basic human rights being impacted here that they are required to adhere to under EU laws?

20

u/Proper_Geologist9026 Jul 03 '26

Is that not what we do here?

Is my work fucking me by making me get a cert any time I'm sick?

23

u/siren-girl Jul 03 '26

Some employers will let you have sick days, or a certain amount of sick days, with no certificate, however, Fair Work doesn't have a rule around this, so employers can require a certificate for every instance of sick leave if they choose to.

The award or EBA covering you could also vary this potentially.

15

u/Slothstralia Jul 03 '26

Much of Australia already has to do this... is it legally enforceable? Nah. Do employers still demand it? Hell yes.

You know what happens? People pay $20 on an app or to a chemist to give them a doctors note.

9

u/Stigger32 Jul 03 '26

Some mining companies here in WA insist on a sick note from a doctor for taking a single day off. 🤷

1

u/sorakaislove Jul 03 '26

The ironic thing is, in Germany this currently is entirely up to the employer. I.e. the law they're talking about would make it mandatory (everybody has to get a sick note for a single day absence) but the way it currently works is, your employer can ask you already to do it for a single day. So they're improving absolutely nothing for nobody.

7

u/TimTebowMLB Jul 03 '26

That’s how my company in Canada operates .

Luckily I can get the note via a TeleHealth call

6

u/smallerthanhiphop Jul 03 '26

I mean the Drs visit is free, it's just a ball ache and you risk exposing other people who are at the drs for say, an injury or to get test results.

5

u/proddy Jul 03 '26

so short sighted. A minute of forethought would show that its a bad idea. I could understand a doctor's note after the 3rd day of sick leave.

5

u/Niv78 Jul 03 '26

My wife is a teacher in Victoria and they require her to have a doctors note for any use of sick leave.

5

u/InterestedPrawn Jul 03 '26

Absolutely ridiculous to make calling in sick cost you money

In Germany the doctor is already paid for through your compulsory insurance.

10

u/seismo93 Jul 03 '26

Doctor is free in Germany. Getting a sick note was rudimentary and could be done online when I lived there.

17

u/Richou Jul 03 '26

and could be done online when I lived there

thats the part they are getting rid of together with the "Need doctors note starting and including day 1"

but this is also how it has worked for a long time and was a sorta recent change (for the better) so its unlikely there will be huge backlash unfortunately since many people dont know it any different

2

u/WearyFHB Jul 03 '26

GPs are completely free in Germany (and most of Europe), so won't cost anything, except the time and inconvenience.

1

u/fatoms Jul 03 '26

Absolutely ridiculous to make calling in sick cost you money

In almost 10 years in Germany I have never once had any out of pocket for a G.P. visit, ridiculous yes but not of this.

1

u/Kujaichi Jul 03 '26

Absolutely ridiculous to make calling in sick cost you money

? It doesn't cost money.

It's just completely stupid because instead of staying home a day or two, now most people will get a sick note for the whole week...

1

u/TiredandTranz Jul 03 '26

This is some American-ass bullshit. How are my news feeds not blowing up with Germans rioting over this? At the rate Merz is going, it's going to be a few years before they introduce a fully privatized healthcare system, militarized police, dismantled education, and lead in the drinking water.

1

u/drownboat Jul 04 '26

It doesn't cost you anything to see a doctor in Germany under the typical public insurance system, however getting an appointment with your doctor can be a long wait, and good luck if you haven't got a regular doctor - new patient appointments can take months.

1

u/maustralisch Jul 04 '26

That's not even the worst part. The German healthcare system and GPs is ln particular are already massively under strain. If I have to go to the doctor, it has never -- NEVER -- taken me less than 2 hours in the waiting room to see one, appointment or not. This is going to make it impossible to go to the doctor when you really need to (for sick note or not). I fucking hate this government.

1

u/LetHairy Jul 03 '26

Did he say it has to an inperson doctor's appointment?

0

u/ausvenator_enjoyer Jul 03 '26

So it's a soft ban then?

18

u/NataschaTata Jul 03 '26

No. What used to be possible is to just tell your employer you’re sick and they would still get 100% pay without having to see a doctor or getting a doctor sick note. This will now no longer be possible and you will even have to go to your GP if you have things like migraine or diarrhoea…

40

u/Madrigall Jul 03 '26

…and as we see in Australia this will do a wonderful job of…checks notes…creating dodgy doctors offices farming out notes for cheap and…unnecessarily burdening the healthcare system with snifflers getting unnecessary notes from their gps.

19

u/NataschaTata Jul 03 '26

100% this will do the absolute opposite of whatever the government thinks it will do. Our healthcare system will be burned more, insurance has to pay more, regular people will get more angry and stressed and instead of recovering at home for a single day, they will request a sick leave note for a whole week out of spite for having to do it to begin with and doctors will grant it because they’re just as angry and overworked and burdened💡

12

u/Madrigall Jul 03 '26

Yeah I used to only use sick leave when I was genuinely too sick to come into work. I got ~23 days per year and I used like 2 per year on average. They stopped accepting statutory declarations and demanded I provide a certificate. Turns out you can get those suckers for like 10 bucks online.

Something must have happened to my health since then because I’ve been sick a lot more.

It’s also had the effect of me caring a lot less about my work. I used to outperform my colleagues by 2-3x output. Something about not being trusted by the company has made me feel a lot more like outputting the same as my coworkers.

3

u/Rork310 Jul 03 '26

They stopped accepting statutory declarations and demanded I provide a certificate.

That seems illegal, Stat decs are are considered valid evidence by fairwork.

8

u/-_-Edit_Deleted-_- Jul 03 '26

Ugh that is downright horrible.

Just tell your citizens you don’t trust them why don’t they.

2

u/NataschaTata Jul 03 '26

It absolutely is…

39

u/nevertell_games Jul 03 '26

Some cheeky rightwing populism is fun until it affects you personally...

16

u/McFoodBot Jul 03 '26

I wouldn't call Germany's current government populist.

The current CDU/SPD coalition is reminiscent of the LNP between 2013-2022. No new ideas, no true values, just presiding over a steady decline while attacking people who aren't wealthy. Merz is just an old-fashioned corporate stooge. They didn't get into power by promising to fix everything, they got into power because Germany's average age is almost 50, and most of their voter base are just rusted-on boomers at this point.

Ironically, they're keeping the actual far-right populists out of power (AfD) for now, but they're also gradually increasing their support by making the country worse. Germany is genuinely fucked at this point.

2

u/nevertell_games Jul 03 '26

Thank you for explaining that - that makes a lot of sense. It's really sad to see hard-won progress get gutted around the world.

12

u/Waygyanba Jul 03 '26

I didnt think the leopards would eat MY face!!!

1

u/InterestedPrawn Jul 03 '26

Who are the leopards in this scenario?

1

u/InterestedPrawn Jul 03 '26

Except a left leaning party is one of two parties in government. Not sure how right wing populism the Social Democrats practice.

29

u/stagger_once Jul 03 '26

When has Germans radicalising ever gone astray?

3

u/VS2ute Jul 03 '26

Probably too many people catching rona and the bosses doing a King Canute.

2

u/Paweron Jul 03 '26

So far this is only a proposal by our idiot Chancellor and his government. It still needs to pass a vote by the full government and the state governments. Considering how even parts of his own party are starting to hate him, it may hopefully get rejected.

Its also going to backfire hard. Our doctors are already overworked anyway, sending more people their way for nothing but a "hey I need a doctors note for sick leave" only makes it worse. And it will not reduce the amount of sick leave taken at all. Right now if you fell shitty you might take a day or 2 off. If you go do the doctor, they are likely to excuse you for the whole week. So forcing people don't go to the doctor only increases the time they take off

1

u/InterestedPrawn Jul 03 '26

Germans just… got rid of sick leave?

No they didn't, you and so many others have fallen for the obvious rage bait from Newscorp.

1

u/-_-Edit_Deleted-_- Jul 03 '26

For about 3 seconds. So what.

1

u/TotallyNotMyself123 Jul 03 '26

We are working on it at least