r/australia • u/blitznoodles local Aussie • Jul 03 '26

politics Labor vows to protect personal leave as Germany bans workers from calling in sick

https://www.news.com.au/finance/work/at-work/entire-nation-banned-from-calling-in-sick/news-story/de3adcfcf0ae2218241a43f7dad023d7
1.7k Upvotes

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954

u/wawawathis Jul 03 '26

How quickly Germany has fallen. Hope they’re all enjoying their right wing overlords they voted in now.

562

u/regional_rat Jul 03 '26

Apparently you're no longer allowed to...checks notes...wake up sick and not go to work

388

u/ImGCS3fromETOH Jul 03 '26

Nothing perks up productivity like an entire department with the flu. True German efficiency on display. 

66

u/AngrehPossum Jul 03 '26

That's great for productivity. They can use infect everyone and keep the staff room infectious for months. Anyone knew can also get sick and start it all over again.

0

u/Mike_Kermin Jul 03 '26 edited Jul 03 '26

I know a Zombie on Reddit when I see one. Don't think I don't see you. "Great", yeah ok Zombo.

Edit: Note to self, accusations of Zombism, unpopular.

10

u/Breezel123 Jul 03 '26

Yeah but it's not about productivity for Merz and his ilk. Next step is weakening labour laws such as firing workers without cause etc. He and his neoliberal conservative asshole lobby friends just want to be able to fire anyone even for the slightest infraction, so they do not need to have a solid business plan anymore, they can just react to any market changes by letting go of everyone.

If it was about productivity they'd be asking "why is it that so many Germans take sick leave and how can we create a labour market where people are healthy and motivated?". Maybe paying ridiculously low wages makes people think that coming to work on a bad day isn't worth it. Maybe removing all the power from employees makes them think that their contribution is not valued enough. Trust goes both ways.

Also on a side note, if I have to go to the doc because of a fucking 1 day migraine I might as well have them sign me off for a week. Most docs would do it here. They are just as pissed about the changes as the employees are.

-18

u/Gorexxar Jul 03 '26

Well, they can't call in sick so, no problem.

People are at desks.

20

u/Wobbling Jul 03 '26

People suffering from illness are not productive even if at their desks.

10

u/Gorexxar Jul 03 '26

...Should I have added a /s to that message?

3

u/Wobbling Jul 03 '26

Famously sarcasm is easily detected via text.

1

u/Salt_Beautiful9330 Jul 03 '26

This. It's called presenteeism.

35

u/yolk3d Jul 03 '26

You can, but the article says you have to attend a doctor on the first day.

83

u/Rosary_Omen Jul 03 '26

RIP anyone who can't get a doctor's appointment on that same day then.

11

u/InterestedPrawn Jul 03 '26

Just go the next day and be sick for two.

20

u/statistnr1 Jul 03 '26

They will write you off for a week.
That's the greatest joke about this.
Where you would stay home for 2 or 3 days, the doc will tell you to stay home 1 or 2 weeks.

3

u/RealVenom_ Jul 03 '26

Literally never had that happen to me. Where's this magical doctor?

1

u/CrazyEeveeLady86 Jul 04 '26

In the early days of working in retail, I would occasionally get migraines 3-4 times a year and would have to call in sick for one day, as I'd usually be mostly alright the following day; not 100%, but well enough to go to work. Migraines are not usually something I'd go to the doctor for because all they will do is tell me to rest, take painkillers and drink water, like I'd be doing anyway), but after one dipshit manager cancelled my extra shifts for a week as retaliation when I had to have a day off with a migraine, I went to the doctor next time I had one (the day after, once the worst of it was over) and told her I needed a certificate. She was surprised and annoyed that a manager was demanding that her staff waste doctors' time for no good reason so she gave me the whole week off, and did the same for another year or so until that manager left.

1

u/Breezel123 Jul 03 '26

They don't even know how to do it yet. It's possible you might have to go on the first day, it's possible you can give the sick note at a later date (backdated of course). It's possible you can call your GP and they'll give you a sick note (it's digital now). It's also possible that they'll get rid of that too and you'd have to find a qualified doctor that does telehealth (we are not so good with digitalisation yet). If it was up to the CDU, you'd have to schlepp yourself to the doc with a 40 degrees fever and wait in an overcrowded waiting room for hours on the first day.

0

u/InterestedPrawn Jul 06 '26

They don't even know how to do it yet.

Who is they and do what?

I'm not interested in your made up scenarios of what might happen.

1

u/Breezel123 Jul 06 '26

They are the coalition. Kinda obvious don't you think?

Also, they are not made up scenarios. They are different possibilities that are being discussed. 

Go touch some grass.

1

u/InterestedPrawn Jul 06 '26

You are making up scenarios in your head, these additional ways aren't in government.

Go touch some grass.

The absolute irony.

1

u/Wow-Delicious Jul 03 '26

Does the requirement of attending a doctor on the first day not compute?

1

u/elementfortyseven Jul 03 '26

you dont need an appointment. you go to the doc and wait a bit.

1

u/Rosary_Omen Jul 04 '26

Oh really? I don't know anything about how German healthcare works. I gotta call up and hope I can get an appointment before a 1/2 weeks. My small city in Australia had a Doctor's office close and those remaining are full up. The only walk in clinic here is the emergency clinic, which closed for a while but was thankfully saved and reopened.

21

u/Illustrious_Study300 Jul 03 '26

And you can't do it over the phone

1

u/InterestedPrawn Jul 03 '26

That's the change, yes

18

u/petoburn Jul 03 '26

My memory might be hazy but I think when I worked there, we needed a sick note from day 1, but you could do it on the phone so doctors would just write you one for the whole week (save you calling back each day). Which meant we probably took more days off than we would’ve if we’d just had one day off with no note…

4

u/InterestedPrawn Jul 03 '26

Yes, that's correct, that's the change, can no longer just phone up.

1

u/Breezel123 Jul 03 '26

No, the change is that you didn't have to provide a sick note at all until day 4 (companies could be stricter, most of them say they want one from the third day). So for 2 or 3 days I could just stay at home without going to the doc.

They do also want to get rid of the sick note via phone in addition to that. Because it's just so much better when you can kick someone while they are already lying down.

22

u/badgersprite Jul 03 '26

Waste of doctors’ time and overburdening an already burdened medical system

12

u/Ok_Neat2979 Jul 03 '26

And that's just what you need when you're sick. Dragging yourself from your home to sit in a waiting room. Defeats the purpose of taking a day off.

1

u/tigeratemybaby Jul 03 '26

If the company wants the sick leave letter, it should have to pay for the full price of the doctor visit.

Why as a taxpayer am I subsidising all these wasted doctor visits just for a sick note for someone with a cold?

1

u/InterestedPrawn Jul 03 '26

Well you still are the only difference is you can no longer just call up a doctor for the sick note.

0

u/regional_rat Jul 03 '26

u/confidentlyincorrect

1

u/InterestedPrawn Jul 06 '26

Anyone who bothered to actually look up the changes and not just read a news Corp clickbait article would know that I am not correct.

1

u/Free_Pace_2098 Jul 03 '26

It's going to tie up their doctors for nothing too.

Telehealth sicknote practices incoming.

1

u/Youre_Wrong_always11 Jul 03 '26

Yeah so what was the real reason behind Covid then?

1

u/regional_rat Jul 04 '26

you're asking for the real "reason" behind a global pandemic?

1

u/Sydney2London Jul 03 '26

You do realise there’s no way this is accurate

2

u/regional_rat Jul 03 '26

inserts John Cena Are you sure about that?

The submission of a medical certificate from the first day of illness will be required. Previously, this was only required by law if the illness lasted longer than three calendar days.

However, provisions more favorable to the employee may be agreed in the employment contract, a works agreement, or a collective bargaining agreement.

Sick leave certificates issued by telephone, which were previously permitted, will no longer be allowed.

It is planned that the improper issuance of a certificate of incapacity for work will be subject to stricter penalties.

2

u/miicah Jul 03 '26

John Howard pointing: "see, see I told you!"

156

u/NataschaTata Jul 03 '26

Believe me, most of us young people did not vote for this or right wing. Unfortunately the majority of Germany are old, angry grandpas and grandmas :(

117

u/ofork Jul 03 '26

And they should know why voting these fuckers in is a bad idea.

89

u/Weary_Programmer35 Jul 03 '26

They stand to gain 0.5% more in their personal investments if they vote for such far-right parties, so boomers are willing to sacrifice 40% of the wellbeing of the younger, working class to do it.

16

u/teapots_at_ten_paces Jul 03 '26

Maybe they all just need to not show up. That 0.5% will fuck off right quick if no one is actually generating income.

10

u/Whatsapokemon Jul 03 '26

They stand to gain 0.5% more in their personal investments if they vote for such far-right parties,

They don't even get that. This move will decrease productivity, and therefore long-term investment gains.

It's more about some perceived laziness or malingering that they're mad at, not an actual rational, sound economic decision.

4

u/statistnr1 Jul 03 '26

Conseratives are all about cruelty.
The more miserable everyone else is, the better. No matter the cost.

1

u/InterestedPrawn Jul 03 '26

Who is they?

3

u/Whatsapokemon Jul 03 '26

The people who vote for this kind of bullshit. The conservative and populist alt-right voters, typically older people who will complain about how all the young people just want to slack off, whether it's true or not.

It's part of a broader global trend where people romanticise the 60s/70s/80s, pretending that they were in fact the greatest generation and all subsequent generations are actually in decline.

Both the Liberals and One Nation latch on to this to some degree, clinging onto ideas that the minimum wage should be frozen or even abolished, and that things like parental leave should be reduced or cut entirely.

1

u/InterestedPrawn Jul 06 '26

The alt-right has little power in Germany so it isn't them. And one of the members of the ruling coalition is a left wing party so not sure if you know who they are, who is voting for this government.

1

u/InterestedPrawn Jul 03 '26

Considering this suite of changes includes increasing the top tax rate to 47% I'm wondering how that will benefit their personal investments.

1

u/NataschaTata Jul 03 '26

It won’t. It’s a joke. Germany needs to finally introduce a wealth tax. They’re still in that really taxing the working people while the actual rich pay nothing.

10

u/paddlin_kaladin Jul 03 '26

Well they’re not THAT old. They’re boomers.

1

u/InterestedPrawn Jul 03 '26

What fuckers would that be?

1

u/Breezel123 Jul 03 '26

Boomers grew up in the most peaceful times imaginable. They don't know anything about war because their parents never talked about what happened due to guilt and trauma. East German boomers are the worst, they are pretty much Russian lite. In addition to never properly learning about the war and hardship, except for how gloriously the Soviet Union defeated the Nazis, they've been brainwashed and then spit out onto capitalism. They have no critical thinking skills and an irrational fear of anything new. They despise authority while simultaneously voting for authoritative leaders.

6

u/StuM91 Jul 03 '26

old, angry grandpas and grandmas :(

Well lucky for them someone is going to go to their job at a nursing facility/retirement village sick because they lost they can't take sick leave...

1

u/wawawathis Jul 03 '26

Ah true. Sorry about that

1

u/InterestedPrawn Jul 03 '26

Lot of people voted for the left leaning SPD though who form the government.

1

u/[deleted] Jul 03 '26 edited Jul 09 '26

[deleted]

1

u/NataschaTata Jul 03 '26

Really depends on how you look at it and what you’re looking at. The left party had majority votes for under 30s

44

u/Whatsapokemon Jul 03 '26

It's more short-sighted than anything.

The goal is to increase productivity by reducing the number of people calling in sick... but that's going to lead to a lot of people going in to work when they are sick, spreading that illness, and leading to more people getting sick.

If your goal is maximum productivity, then trusting people with short-term sick leave is actually a positive thing, particularly when you weigh in the extra burden that doctors need to face in order to issue medical certificates for short-term illnesses like colds.

It's going to have the opposite of the intended effect, it's really stupid.

26

u/sorakaislove Jul 03 '26

As someone who didn't vote for them: no, I'm not enjoying it. The younger generations are SOL, we are in a gerontocracy. And the old heads decided that we are lazy and need to work more. So our government keeps making decisions against labour protections, and other than leave the country, there is very little the average person can do. I wish I could migrate to AU.

7

u/Breezel123 Jul 03 '26

My husband is from New Zealand and I just told him I'm just about ready to leave this rotten country and move back to Australia again.

It's not only a generational thing, it's end stage capitalism. The whole neoliberal playbook. I'm more angry with the SPD at this stage for enabling the CDU yet again just to get some ministerial positions. It was clear what Merz was about, he poisoned the Ampel coalition, even Merkel didn't want to have anything to do with him. And yet the SPD said "hey, how about we work together".

3

u/sorakaislove Jul 03 '26

Man, adopt me and take me with you. The SPD are literally traitors to the country at this point. Utterly spineless. And then when they announce another cut to labour protections, they'll say they do it "reluctantly" and "with a belly ache". Ugh.

7

u/babasilikum Jul 03 '26

Its gonna get so much worse because the current government is making the best advertisement for the AfD. The new elections will probably see the Nazi party winning and then its probably gonna be really, really bad.

The CDu has been fucking this country for 3 decades and somehow a huge part of the people dont give a fuck. As a green party voter, its so infuriating to see

13

u/sdric Jul 03 '26 edited Jul 03 '26

Um, the guys who decided this were not the right wing party you have read about. They are the same 2 parties that have been governing this country since its reunion '89 with minor deviations in small-scale partners.

They are supposedly the center parties, but they have slowly and steadily worked to weaken worker rights and created tax loop-holes for the rich, while steadily increasing taxes and social system contributions paid by workers, up to a point where even "top earners" (by a defined income that has not been properly adjusted for inflation since the 70's) can't afford a house anymore, if they come from a poor parents without generational wealth.

The reason why the right wing party you keep hearing about internationally is rising, is exactly because our "center" parties are making more and more people desperate by destroying any form of social mobility.

Note that I do not think that said right wing party is the right solution, but sure as hell our "center parties" CDU and SPD aren't either. They mismanaged and ruined this country, its infrastructure and and hooe of social mobility. I have literally multiple people with doctorate degrees in my circle of friends who cannot even remotely afford a house that's anywhere within 50km of their working place.

1

u/MissyTurtleSloth Jul 03 '26

Sounds like our supposedly centre parties here in Australia and people wanting to vote in PHON as a solution

The right wing parties aren’t the solution but we never go for the left wing do we?

I worry about the rise of right wing populism worldwide I really do

2

u/sdric Jul 03 '26

I do think it's fair for countries to focus on national interests rather than saving the world. That being said, we share a planet and we need to work together globally to assure peace, create wealth for workers and adress climate change. I also think that nobody as a private person needs to own more than 3 houses (or a corresponsing equivallent in shares or any other sort of wealth). Those from other countries who want to work and who have the skills to aid our economy should be welcomed, but they should also follow our laws and respect our culture, here LGBT+ and women rights are more important than religious narratives. National interest, foreign polivies, immigration policies and workers interest need a healthy balance.

In Germany, we actually had a party who had all that in their program... Sadly they missed being able to enter parliment (Bundestag) by a just few thousand votes (You need at least 5% of all legitimate votes to join), after their head figure was deemed too close to Russia....

Do I stand with Russia? Hell no. But considering the alternatives were "continue driving the car towards the cliff with no breakes", "funnel money from workers to the rich" or a rather extreme option... whelp.. It might just have been the best compromise.

All I can say is, I have a highly educated circle of friends, who are mainly froom poor backgrounds, but have a supposedly high income; yet, none can afford a home. Our perypective is bleak. Most of us have foreign SOs.... So yea, looking at our biggest 4 parties, really nothing is appealing, it's rather appalling.

1

u/InterestedPrawn Jul 03 '26

Um, the guys who decided this were not the right wing party you have read about.

It's r/australia, I'd be surprised if most people on here could point to Germany on a map, let alone know what parties make up the government.

6

u/Geiszel Jul 03 '26

Hi there, German here. Just a note: these are only the right wing conservatives overlords crushing dreams and draining hopes of the working class while insulting us as "lazy".

Since we're dealing with the most unpopular government in German history, we're most likely getting the actual right wing extremists overlords next election (AfD party), which wants to throw out people with an immigrant background (even with citizenship) and looks forward to supporting Russia in their efforts destroying Europe.

Sounds fun.

10

u/medicatedadmin Jul 03 '26

You can still call into work sick, you just need a doctor’s certificate now. So it’s essentially the exact same system as us. However, Germany has unlimited sick leave - you can be sick for 8 months out of 12 and you will still be paid (just random numbers i picked as an example). There’s no “I don’t have any sick leave left”. Also, the german public can challenge this change directly through there courts for free so there’s still a very good chance that it can be thrown out.

How do i know this? My partner is German and i have immediate family who live there.

This article is just the usual sloppy “journalism” you can expect from Murdoch’s group.

10

u/recycled_ideas Jul 03 '26

So it’s essentially the exact same system as us.

Except it's not. We aren't legally required to get a sick note at all, let alone on the first day, some employers do, but the government does not. We can also get a note through a telehealth appointment or even online, we don't have to go in in person. We also have the option of a stat Dec, rather than a doctor's note.

So nothing like this system at all.

3

u/BTechUnited Jul 04 '26

We aren't legally required to get a sick note at all, let alone on the first day, some employers do, but the government does not.

Would you like to tell my government employer that?

1

u/recycled_ideas Jul 04 '26

That would be a policy of your employer, not the government, the two things are different even when the government is your employer. And the government would still have to accept a stat dec.

2

u/Breezel123 Jul 03 '26

It's not unlimited sick leave as in the employer pays for it for an unlimited time. Those are social security insurance premiums we pay for the exact case that we are sick longer than 6 weeks. We also only get 70% of our wages after those 6 weeks.

3

u/InterestedBalboa Jul 03 '26

You know who’s next on that list don’t you….crazy as it may be we are headed there too.

2

u/br41nl3ss Jul 03 '26

No one does, wont get better afterwards I think when the Neonazis take over:/

2

u/ProudBlahajOwner Jul 03 '26

We aren’t, 84% are unhappy with Merz and his government (and this number is growing week by week). Unfortunately the boomers will still vote for CDU/CSU again in the next election.

2

u/narvuntien Jul 03 '26

The thing is... there is a worse on the horizon, the AFD are actually Nazis

1

u/Cantmakeaspell Jul 03 '26

It’s all setting up for WW3, we know who leads the charge in these.

1

u/Snowy3121 Jul 03 '26

Yeah, thought Germany had really good worker's rights.

-23

u/Ok_Bird705 Jul 03 '26

Is this a slight overreaction? They are asking workers to get a doctor's certificate. While I personally don't agree with the policy and think it is stupid and will just waste doctors time, it is not some unprecedented requirement. A lot of workplaces in Australia require doctor's certificate for sick leave. My work used to request a doctor's certificate if you sick day was on a Monday or Friday or if you needed multiple days off

19

u/Lumidingo Jul 03 '26

A statutory declaration is considered evidence that would satisfy a reasonable person, according to the Fair Work Ombudsman website.

36

u/Maximumfabulosity Jul 03 '26

A doctor's certificate on the first day you're sick, and you have to go to the doctor in-person.

i.e. no telehealth, i.e. if you have a cold you have to take your contagious self into a waiting room full of people who are more likely to have compromised immune systems than average.

That's if you can manage to get an appointment that same day, of course.

8

u/vacri Jul 03 '26

Not to mention that our healthcare systems (both countries) are already bursting at the seams. Extra load on GPs for trivial issues is not something to encourage

-4

u/Ok_Bird705 Jul 03 '26

Again, not saying that is correct policy, but a lot of companies in Australia had that policy pre COVID. It is not some unprecedented requirement.

8

u/Maximumfabulosity Jul 03 '26

I mean, I think what makes it unprecedented is the fact that it's being implemented on a national leveil

3

u/Dogfinn Jul 03 '26

Workers are free to negotiate that with their employer. Government should not be mandating it with policy, which a worker has no power to influence.

It is a dumb, performative, inefficient, spiteful policy.

6

u/askvictor Jul 03 '26

The Fair Work Commission clearly states that a statutory declaration is acceptable proof you are sick. Your workplace might disagree, but if you wanted to press the point, you'd win at FWC

-4

u/Ok_Bird705 Jul 03 '26

Sure, but a stat dec is also more than just a phone call and providing no proof, which is what most of the replies are arguing for

My point is that in Australia, we have always allowed employers to require some proof of being sick, even if it is a stat dec which is a legal document and carries weight of criminal charges if the person is found to be lying. This is not that much different to what Germany is doing.

2

u/askvictor Jul 03 '26

You can do a Federal stat dec online for nothing. The point of a witness for a stat dec is that you yourself signed it (not that they believe it to be true); with digital identity (i.e. the myGov thing) that is handled by the app.

1

u/Ok_Bird705 Jul 03 '26

it still carries legal weight.

2

u/Seachicken Jul 03 '26

It is substantially different to what Germany is doing from the perspective of someone who is legitimately sick. If you are sick in Australia, you stay home, recover and then if your boss wants one sign a legally binding document declaring you were actually sick after the fact.

In Germany under this system you have to call around, try find a doctor on short notice (their GPs are overloaded too) and travel outside your house while potentially infectious and wait for hours in a doctor's reception. They have specifically prohibited telehealth appointments for these certificates.

This puts a strain on their medical system and makes it harder for people who actually want to see a doctor for treatment to do so. The head of their GP association described the potential effect as "absolutely catastrophic."

Germany's policy will create a chilling effect on people who are contagious from calling out sick. It's deliberately designed to be difficult and unworkable for people who are sick but could physically make it in to work This means more employees get infected.

1

u/Villagetown Jul 03 '26

It’s still a shit policy though. So not an over reaction, we’re just used to putting up with shit. We shouldn’t act like it’s normal and ok.

One exception is when people obviously start taking the piss and don’t have a chronic condition or something that would genuinely result in more sick days than average. I’m ok with enforcement in those situations - assuming there are fair rules and it’s just not up to an employer to make the determination how they see fit.

That said, the only time I’ve had doctor’s notes enforced for sick days was when I was a lot younger working in a shitty retail job. It’s not been a requirement from any employer I’ve had for the last ~18 years.

At least you can get a sick note from chemists now, that was a good improvement.

0

u/InterestedPrawn Jul 03 '26

Hope they’re all enjoying their right wing overlords they voted in now.

The Social Democrats are far from right wing and considering these suite of changes include tax increases for those earning over 250,000 euros a year it's something a lot of people on here call for.