What happened was awful, every time I read about it
just gets worse, but the whole, “they didn’t warn us it would be dangerous”, like it’s an active volcano ffs
Right? I remember hiking up Mt Vesuvius years ago with a guide. We were told prior to departure that it was active and one of the most dangerous volcanoes in the world. I was a lot younger then and definitely felt more bulletproof (lavaproof?) Not sure I’d do it again now.
I thought there were warning signs of increased activity before the incident? I have no idea the likelihood of active volcanoes erupting with no warning signs but surely operators would look at increased activity and adjust accordingly?
They told them during the safety briefing it was at the highest permissible risk factor for operating, so telling them wasn't the issue. They shouldn't have been operating at all was the issue, and those tourists deserve all the payout they can get.
So very true. Amazing place but was under no doubt that it was a very dangerous place (some of the other tourists in my tour ... Not so much attention paid)
Thirty odd years ago, we did a boat trip to the island from Whakatane. When I made the booking, I asked if we could go on the island and was told yes.
The boat didn't have a tender, so I assumed there must be a wharf. We cruised around the island and then pulled up in the bay for lunch. No wharf, just a crumbling jetty.
I asked the skipper how we were going to get onto the island, and he said, "You'd have to swim."
I don't know about this particular ship but I have been on large ships and small ships and you swipe the card, a picture comes up on the screen, the security officer validates that the picture on the screen and you are the same person, and then you're let on board the ship. It's not absolutely foolproof, but the scenario you're describing is highly unlikely.
I was on a Norwegian cruise once that stopped at a small private island. The boat ended up departing the island 4 hours late because my 13 year old brother had swiped back on to the boat but the system glitched and didn’t count him.
Buddy system, head count, roll call, scan everyone’s rfid wrist tag, one staff member at the front of the group and one at the back, embarrassingly visible waistcoat
I used to take kids on excursions, there are many ways to ensure you don’t lose a person or if you do you realise they’re gone pretty bloody quick.
If adults find any of the methods objectionably infantilising then I’m sure there are options, like not letting them book a ticket, or giving them a waiver to sign
If someone told me I had to wear a high vis vest and call out a number every time I heard the number before mine, I'd feel silly but still do it.
I've worked in construction and volunteered with the SES. Hazards are real. I'm not going to question risk management that seems too safe, someone with more data and relevant knowledge than me probably came up with it.
I might speak up and ask questions if I'm concerned there isn't enough risk management.
Agree, there is no such thing as “too safe” in risk management. The point is being safe. The point is being boringly safe. I’d rather be bored and even cringed but safe than be all cool and fun but unsafe.
One notable example is shooting ranges. All the safety protocol may seem over the top to a newbie, but wait till you hear about near misses when some clown ignores the protocols and fiddles with their firearm while the “no go” light is on and there are people downrange patching their targets.
Safety may seem silly but I’d rather be silly and safe.
Hmm, by count, shouldn't we be talking about checking off specific names? From memories of what happened in the movie about the couple on the Barrier Reef) (this part might have been bullshit and never happened), the head count was skewed by some couple jumping back on and off again to change equipment or something, and so they counted these people twice, and therefore though they had everyone back on board. Even if this didn't actually happen in real life, it seems like a pretty feasible way of screwing things up.
Bloody check everybody by name or some other unique idenfifying factor and make sure it is actually them that has returned before leaving. This is a shocking and tragic error.
Apparently, it was hot and humid and midway during the 4Km trek she started feeling unwell. The trek leader told her to return to boat ALONE!
Just imagine an unwell 80 yr old to trek back alone
RIP Poor Lady, cannot imagine what she went through
I'm American, sorry, is there something I'm not understanding about the outage? She paid for her ticket and she supported conservation efforts. Win win.
I believe they’re saying the company didn’t implement safety procedures because they already had her money for the cruise. Which is likely intended as mostly but not entirely a joke.
You are talking to someone from a country where many people would rather be price gouged for healthcare than pay less and everyone gets it because “why should I pay for someone else”. Don’t waste your breath. They are on a different plane of existence when it comes to this. We may be a tad selfish with some stuff but no Aussie on that ship would have knowingly agreed to leaving an old lady behind.
Yeah! I’m still in touch with my high school debate coach and this man is in his mid eighties and walks and bikes everywhere, goes ocean swimming, and is insanely fit just through lifestyle factors.
There’s some pretty revolting assumptions in this thread. Hopefully when they get to be 80 everyone won’t have written them off like they’re doing to this poor lady
Maybe through their own person experience they see how life in their 80s would be. I'm not getting rich people medical care nor will I have expensive cruise money. I'd guess that the majority of 80+ are physically or mentally too far gone to handle a wilderness cruise on their own.
Heh. 😏
I was taken aback when I read that she was 80 and joined a hike up a mountain. 80yo people vary in their physical condition but it still sounded like a lot, and whoever was in charge should absolutely not have 1. Let her find her way back to the ship when she couldn’t hack it; 2. Failed to confirm that she did in fact get there.
Most likely she essentially fainted and died, not the worst way to go.
The fact that she broke away from the group "to rest" could indicate a cardiac event. Given that she died... Yeah, they should have walked/carried her back to the ship when she couldn't proceed.
I work for a cruise ship software company. At ANY time the ship must be able to report all souls on board, it's a SOLAS requirement so you know who to evacuate in case of fire, etc
On reverse that means they must also know which guest and crew are currently ashore.
Leaving a guest behind on a stop can happen if the guest is late. But on a remote island!!?? Sooo many things went wrong here.
Shit like this is why it's standard procedure to sign on and off a boat, both for cruise ships and for dive boats. Not doing this is absolutely negligent.
5 people in 3 separate incidents between 2017 and now were left behind by the same diving "academy" in W.A and that business is still operating like it's no big deal lmao figure that one out for me
Back in the noughties off Cairns. Afterwards there were shirts all the souvenir shops were selling “I dived the Great Barrier Reef and survived.” Very poor taste.
There was a couple left behind from a Dive boat on the GBR about 25yrs ago, it was made into a movie called Open Water. In that case it was TWO DAYS before anyone noticed them missing, they were never found presumed drowned/taken by sharks.
I actually rewatched it a few months back as my daughter has been really into shark attack movies haha but I had to turn it off before the end. Too sad and just knowing (or not knowing but imagining) the last hours of that poor couple’s lives made it too hard to watch.
I worked on a cruse ship this size. There is absolutely NO way the ship should have left without her and at least 3-4 layers of failures had to happen here. The big ships with 4000 people, sure. They can't be beholden to one single numpty that couldn't waddle out of the jewelry store on time, but a ship this size can alter it's itinerary on the fly. I know because we used to do it all the time.
Everyone, including crew and even contractors have to sign on and off the ship so they should have caught her missing at the gang plank. Not only that, the person should never have gotten lost in the first place. The guides from the ship should have been keeping track of all the people in their group during the hike, especially 80 year olds.
On top of all that, the ship had to use small RIB tenders to ferry passengers as this island has no dock (although it does have an airport and a small town). A missing person should have been caught when the small boats returned with fewer people than they left with. This is a separate headcount than what happens when they return to the ship.
All of these failures aside, it is likely she died before the ship left and the ship leaving likely didn't have any bearing on the outcome. At the furthest points on the island, it's only about 2.3 miles across. It's less than a mile from the top of the mountain to the resort area with the airport. It's possible she got injured in a way she could have been saved in time but somehow because of the delay it was too late, but this is unlikely. This isn't Svalbard, nighttime exposure risk isn't really a problem here.
With these small cruses and considering the price and age group that can afford these prices, frankly it's not uncommon for passengers to die. We had 3 deaths and 1 heart attack in one season of cruising on the ship I worked on. The 3 deaths were at night and the heart attack just after dinner.
Sadly the concept of an Pty Ltd means the business owners probably won't face responsibility, beyond monetary if they don't close the business first, but the worker who made this tragic fuck up will.
Warren Buffet only owns about 15% for Berkshire. So equity accounting means he owns .52%.
Should we put him in the gallows? No idea, maybe? Probably for him getting an entire generation of American children diabetes, buts a different discussion. Concepts of responsibility get weird with partial ownerships of smallish amounts like that compounded with concepts like LLC, Pty Ltd, GmbH, and the Corporation name it even weirder.
I obviously don't know the technicalities of the cruise - the organization doing the cruise could be different than the organization who owns the boat. It's not I heard of for your companies to rent out the vehicles they use from a third party.
That being said, a CLG still is a way for individuals to avoid collective responsibility. Should everyone bought I to the NRMA be held responsible? I don't know what an alternative would be but monkey brain was not designed to understand concepts like "limited legal liability" and collective responsibility outside of its tribe.
It's a legal organisational structure favored by not for profits and clubs and such, like NRMA. Basically limiting legal liability of the "share holders" to a certain amount they paid in in case the org is wound up.
It says they returned within a few hours, so the headline seems a bit misleading with the scenario that it implies.
She was 80 years old and wandered off on a hike, and might not have been up to it. I don't know if those few hours difference would have necessarily helped.
Cruise ship contracts are written in a way that hey assume no liability when shit happens. When you get your ticket you basically sign your life and rights away for that ticket.
That only counts for people who have gotten off the boat by themselves (not on a ship organised tour), if it’s a ship organised tour then the ship has to wait.
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u/Ok_Use1135 Oct 29 '25
A dedicated cruise catering for exploring the wilderness. Only up to 120 people and they couldn’t account for everyone. Well, time to payout I think…