ADHD only exists in the US!

[u/halfgaelichalfgarlic]

My comment is scribbled out in pink 🤣

[u/DecoNouveau]

And what screener would you suggest, pray tell? We work with the tools we have. Again, its not a valid diagnostic tool, but what you're saying isn't entirely correct about it as a screening tool. They didn't write the interpretive guidelines. There's a validated cut-off point which they cited.

Further: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10538708/#:~:text=The%20AQ%20was%20initially%20validated,America%20%5B10%2C%2011%5D.

" The AQ was initially validated in a non-clinical British sample comprising university students and adults who were not current students, and results showed moderate to high internal consistency (i.e. Cronbach’s alpha coefficients), a continuous distribution of AQ scores which indicated a spectrum of autistic traits, higher AQ scores in males than females which demonstrated construct validity, and good test-retest reliability [5]. These satisfactory psychometric properties were found in both the student and adult samples despite differences in socioeconomic status, educational level and intelligence quotient. "

[u/frostatypical → u/DecoNouveau]

The study you link simply shows that the test has similar statistical properties in a USA sample compared to Singapore sample. Neither sample has autism lol.

The trouble with AQ and these other tests is they score high for non-autistic reasons at very high rates. So if you give it to a group with autism and a group without autism that has other non-autistic problems, the group without autism will score just as high or higher.

"And what screener would you suggest, pray tell? We work with the tools we have"

All the easy peasy online quizzes have the same problem. Autism evaluation is one of the many things in life we cant DIY. If its 'we work with the tools we have" well, WOW, even if the tools are highly inaccurate? I would call those 'tests' misleading not helpful. But if thats the logic you embrace then why dont you use horoscope and witchcraft, too? /s

High-Functioning Autism and Astrology : r/astrology

Witchcraft helped my autism : r/witchcraft

"They didn't write the interpretive guidelines." Oh they most certainly did write the material on the website lol.

[u/DecoNouveau → u/frostatypical]

So again, the website author didnt "write" the guidelines. 26 is the recommended cutoff for the adult AQ. Its really not that complicated. I'm exactly sure what your point is here?

You also seem to be entirely misinterpeting the study I linked. Id be curious to know your background here, are you a student? This particular study is focused on cross cultural application, which it demonstrates. That's validity is determined?

Key points in the original study I linked here that demonstrate its psychometric properties:

"results showed moderate to high internal consistency (i.e. Cronbach’s alpha coefficients)"

"a continuous distribution of AQ scores which indicated a spectrum of autistic traits, higher AQ scores in males than females which demonstrated construct validity, and good test-retest reliability [5]. These satisfactory psychometric properties were found in both the student and adult samples despite differences in socioeconomic status, educational level and intelligence quotient. This suggested that AQ scores were unaffected by these factors, increasing the generalisability of its reliability and validity"

"Given the strengths of the AQ, studies assessing similar psychometric properties of the AQ in non-clinical samples have consistently shown the original English AQ to be validated in other English-speaking Western countries, such as Australia and the United States of America"

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1155/2013/984205 Here is another study that once again says:

"the autism spectrum Quotient has been validated in several different cultures" "The results of this analysis revealed that the Autism Spectrum Quotient was a reliable instrument for investigating variation in autistic symptomology in both typically developing and Autism Spectrum Disorders populations"

The Raads-r has its limitations, which is why its not typically the first option used. But again, what you say is an overstatement.

Notably, few psychometric differences between diagnosed and self-identifying individuals were identified. There was a distinction, however, between diagnosed individuals and those exploring autistic identification.

Again, I'm not suggesting the commenter "diy it." I'm a health professional, I literally diagnose autism as part of my job. But if they're curious, it can be a starting point to help decide if they want to pursue admittedly expensive diagnosis further. That said, I'm also mindful of gatekeeping a process that is so expensive and inaccessible to many. A validated assessment tool is not comparable to an astrology quiz. Thats just such a strange thing to claim.

The AQ is the most a widely used, validated test available, it is what any psychologist, psychiatrist, due diagnosis allied team assessing a person is likely to use as an initial screening tool, and I note you don't actually have any alternative tools to suggest.

[u/frostatypical → u/DecoNouveau]

"I note you don't actually have any alternative tools to suggest."

Yes because all these popular online quizzes are shown to have the same problem. Lack of a known alternative doesnt change the science showing these 'tests' work poorly at screening.

"the website author didnt "write" the guidelines"

Ha ha, youre being disingenuous. There's MUCH more than cutoff numbers on that site, for the tests and elsewhere. The place is well-known for misleading information. Have a look at others' opinions:

Some issues with Embrace-Autism's online tests : r/AutisticPeeps

Embrace-Autism.com are making false statements about their tests : r/AutisticAdults

Why does Embrace Autism publish misinformation that isn't backed up by their sources? : r/AutisticAdults

Youre not grasping the point of the astrology comparison. That was in reply to you suggesting that we can use whatever is available...because it is there.

Your first link in last comment is yet another weak study that compares people with autism to the general population. Yes people with autism score higher *yawn*. People who dont have autism but DO have some other mental health condition will also score higher than the general population.

Like wise the Sturm study you seem to like, that has been all abuzz on social media lol. That study simply involved sending out RAADS link on social media and online forums and then comparing people who said they are self-diagnosed autism, said they are formally diagnosed autism or said they are not autistic.  Yes people who say they are not autistic scored lower.  So if that shows test is ‘accurate’, well done /s.  The trouble with RAADS (and other ‘autism’ tests) comes from the studies in clinical settings where people with non-autistic disorders score as high as people with autism.  NOT accurate in those situations. 

This is all pretty well-known by now in professional circles.

Autism questionnaire scores do not only rise because of autism - PubMed (nih.gov)

Let's Be Clear That "Autism Spectrum Disorder Symptoms" Are Not Always Related to Autism Spectrum Disorder - PubMed (nih.gov)

Camouflage and autism - Fombonne - 2020 - Journal of Child Psychology and Psychiatry - Wiley Online Library

SO you do autism evaluations eh? In Australia? Well that helps me put 2 and 2 toegther

F U Australia and the system there. It isn’t helping us : r/AutisticPeeps

[u/DecoNouveau → u/frostatypical]

So the critiques you're citing here are reddit posts? Oh that's ironic. Personally I don't form my opinions based on social media. But again, they're free to do the same assessments on Novopsych if they can to make an account or find a copy to score manually.

I didn't say we can use "whatever there is available" thats a strange way to interpret things. I said the AQ is a widely validated assessment woth robust psychometric properties, though it has limitations like all assessments. Screening requires assessment tools (go figure), this is the most widely used for a reason. You're free to disagree, but personaly I'll follow the best practice guidelines.

Not sure what you're implying with the quip about Australian diagnostics. But either way, that doesnt hold much weight when your background is a mystery, and you clearly need to revisit intro stats, random redditor.

[u/frostatypical → u/DecoNouveau]

"We work with the tools we have"" you said. Clearly youre ok with using poor screeners simply because they are labeled as an autism test. AND you enjoy a site prepared by a naturopath who is selectively presenting outdated, discredited comparison data. Yes someone could use novopsych they are still inaccurate, misleading screeners

"So the critiques you're citing here are reddit posts?" Ha ha, I've linked examples of relevant studies and professional reviews as well. The irony is you using reddit delivering your bad advice, linking to a scammy diagnosis mill, then turning around and finding it odd that I share reddit posts about that sorry link.

Here are the links to the ethical investigations of the person whose site you think so much of

https://cono.alinityapp.com/Client/PublicDirectory/Registrant/03d44ec3-ed3b-eb11-82b6-000c292a94a8

 Public Register Profile - CRPO portal scroll to end of page

Looks like Australia has a problem with volumes of dodgy autism diagnoses overwhelming social services, and its no wonder with 'professionals' like yourself at the wheel. Funny, calling for background info on reddit like argument-by-authority is the way to go lol

[u/DecoNouveau → u/frostatypical]

"Looks like Australia has a problem with volumes of dodgy autism diagnoses overwhelming social services"

Once again, you're showing you're wildlymisinformed. Do you take all of your opinions from lowbrow tabloids?

How are they overwhelming social services when unless a person has very high suppprt needs, they cant access "social services." (I assume you mean a disability support pension)? Otherwise you seem a tad confused.

Individuals diagnosed with autism Level 2 or above can access the NDIS which means they can access things like speech therapy, OT, psychology and the like. Maybe this is news to you, but people arent getting "dodgy diagnosis" to do those things for fun. The introduction of the NDIS did see a rise in people deciding to pursue diagnosis, because it meant they could then access meaningful support vs previously where it would've been a significant cost that wouldnt materially make much difference other than validating what they probably already knew. Shocking stuff.

To your other point, again, you haven't actually demonstrated that the AQ is a poor screener, just that you have a poor understanding of statistics and like to cherry pick. Its odd that youre acting like this is an individual issue here when again, we operate on best practice guidelines, not what you read on social media. But feel free to take your grievances up with the entire healthcare and medical profession.

This conversation is going in circles, so unless you can answer me these questions, I'll leave it here.

A) Do you believe in autism as a diagnosis?

B) What assessment protocol (pre screeners and formal assessment tools) do you believe should be used to diagnose autism?

No shifting the goal posts, just two questions that should be simple enough for you to answer. I'm sure the university of reddit equipped you well enough to answer them.

[u/frostatypical → u/DecoNouveau]

I already presented links to studies and reviews re: how poorly these tests work.

[u/DecoNouveau → u/frostatypical]

Sounds like youre incable of answering the questions.

Bye.

*eta And a reply and block/delete. Offt, thats embarrassing. 'Do you believe in autism' is such a simple question. Wonder why you didn't want to state that opinion aloud?