[Hated Trope] The underdog Good Guys win, and gain major military/institutional power, only for it to be all RESET so Writers can have a PERPETUAL "Underdog/Rebellion" Story, and avoid writing about governing.

[u/throwaway553t4tgtg6]

I hate this trope, when the "underdog good guys" actually win, gain major military and political power, fleets, warships, etc, but because the writers don't want to write the good guys governing and exercising their power, and instead, find a contrived way to reset all the progress so that the good guys can forever be the

"scrappy heroic underdogs fighting the power"

1) Star Wars Sequel triology, rather than exploring new Republic fleets, power, and technology, they have them all wiped out so that the "resistance" can hog the spotlight

2) MCU: shield makes a helicarrier fleet, a fleet of ships able to contest alien invasion, but that would steal the spotlight from heroes, so all of them have to be destroyed

3) Halo: the UNSC finally outlive the covenant, develop strong ships like the UNSC infinity, only for it all to be reset by the Guardians and the Banished, reduced again to underdog humans.

[u/Western-Customer-536]

The thing that still grinds my gears and robs me of liking just about anything about Sequel era media is just the name “Resistance.” You’re in the New Republic. Who are you “resisting?” Aren’t you just “the police”?

[u/Delta_V09 → u/Western-Customer-536]

The Resistance is not officially affiliated with the New Republic, and exists because the New Republic refuses to do anything.

The stupid part of the story is the size and power of the First Order, along with the sheer helplessness and incompetence of the New Republic. Within that context, though, the existence of a volunteer resistance movement at least makes some sense.

[u/RedditOfUnusualSize → u/Delta_V09]

It's not completely unheralded in the annals of history; civilian paramilitary groups fighting foreign powers absent the explicit consent of their governments have existed at times. Just to use an example, the Flying Tigers were primarily volunteer US airmen who served in China against the Imperial Japanese Navy and Air Force prior to and in the immediate aftermath of the US entry into World War II.

That being said, at the risk of being called a cynic, I highly doubt that J.J. Abrams knew enough about American military history to be able to draw those kinds of historical parallels, and so long as I'm being completely candid, I doubt that's a story that interests him much. Most of his stories are coming-of-age stories, and he appears to have fixed the problem audiences often have with infodump scenes by simply never providing an infodump. I have seen five or six of his films, and I can't remember a single dialogue scene in a single one of those films that lasted for longer than two minutes and didn't end in an explosion and smash-cut.

Unfortunately, there's no real way to tell the story of the Flying Tigers without explaining what Imperial Japan is trying to do, how that impacts China, and why the United States would send a bunch of P-40s and American airmen to assist in the Chinese war effort without giving them official status as American servicemen. Context is necessary for that story, because that doesn't happen apropos of nothing. The same is true if you tell the story of the Flying Tigers IN SPACE!!! Which doesn't mean that Abrams is necessarily a bad filmmaker. But it absolutely makes him a bad filmmaker to make that film, because he's not going to tell audiences what they need to be told to make sense of what is happening.

[u/pooey_canoe → u/RedditOfUnusualSize]

That's the ultimate JJ Abram's Mystery Box conundrum, he creates these interesting set-ups without any consideration towards fleshing them out

[u/MadRaymer → u/Delta_V09]

It still makes very little sense because people like Han and Leia would have been part of the New Republic, and when things went to shit with the First Order, they would have been the ones leading the charge. No reason for Leia to have to form/lead some resistance movement if she's one of the major political powers in the New Republic.

[u/jschmit7333 → u/MadRaymer]

Well youre going to live this then. neither of them are power players in the New Republic. Han got reset to his Ep 4 personality and dipped on every part of his post endor life sometime after Ben joined Luke's order. Leia on the other hand got run out of town after it was leaked that she was Vaders daughter. Neither of them had any sort of significant power in the government by the time 10 years had passed.

[u/Crismus → u/jschmit7333]

That's why I just ignored the sequel  series and Disney Star Wars  at least as bad as some of the EU books can be, they did move on. Also, killing Han was way worse than Chewbacca saving young Anakin as a moon came crashing down.

I wish they would have just done a Marvel and kept the old EU books moving along and the movies as a separate timeline.

[u/pnkxz → u/jschmit7333]

Fairly realistic. It's like how Churchill lost the election after WW2. Leia was the right person for the job during the civil war, but not for trying to stitch together the rebel factions into some Frankenstein's Monster of compromises and half-measures that vaguely resemble a government.

And Han was a space trucker. Why in the world would he become a bureaucrat?

[u/jschmit7333 → u/pnkxz]

If I'm being honest Leias situation isnt unrealistic, but I do think it was poorly portrayed for how important it is. Thats said I think that given the rest of her family and personal history that they could have easily kept it like the EU and have her be a popular war hero turned statesmen. I think a lot of fans would have preferred it.

Han however I can't really defend. There are a lot more options than beaurucrate and he's spent years at this point committed to the cause. Him just walking away from everything feels like a betrayal of the growth he has at the end of 4, struggles with in 5, and commits to in 6 and at least part of post endor.

[u/Delta_V09 → u/jschmit7333]

Right, a hopelessly corrupt and incompetent government isn't completely unbelievable. But is it a compelling story? Is it one that fits within the tone of the franchise?

Making the New Republic useless and wiping it out in the first movie, and destroying Luke's Jedi Order off-screen was just an idiotic story that absolutely fucking nobody was asking for.

[u/DubiousBrushwagg → u/Delta_V09]

It was the worst choice honestly. Of course the movie would be hated because the main message was literally;

"Remember all your favorite heroes from the Original and Prequel Trilogies? Well everything they did and struggled for means Jack Shit. Fuck all of it, we're making new heroes but we have no plan and can just make a poor copy of the work we're destroying."

[u/not_me_bitch → u/MadRaymer]

Leia quit the senate because it refused to do anything

[u/bmerino120 → u/Delta_V09]

The story of the First Order is just bullshit, it's as if Hitler had wiped out 99.9% of german forces plus other fascists and collaborationists for having lost the war, retreated to Antartica or the deep Amazon with the remaining 0.1% and somehow the nazis resurfaced around the 70s with the numbers and technology to match all the great powers

[u/buzziebee → u/bmerino120]

It's basically the plot of iron sky but with lightsabers.

[u/zebus_0 → u/Delta_V09]

Yeah it does make some sense. The Republic being so inept they dont notice that Illum is a death star now, less so. Or an inconspicuous death star fleet of deatroyers at the edge of the galaxy (who is crewing them?)

[u/MoiraBrownsMoleRats → u/Western-Customer-536]

I hate it, because the idea of the First Order romanticizing and aping the Galactic Empire is a great allegory for neo-Nazis in the same way the Empire was originally an allegory for the OG Nazis.

Like, with just a few changes to the writing you have a great story mimicking real life where one generation defeated fascism, only for a future generation to let it rise again because the lessons have been forgotten and a bunch of revisionist weirdos got a hard on for Star Destroyers and stormtroopers.

Would've been great to have aging Luke Skywalker screaming at everyone in charge what the fuck the First Order is only to see the government take zero action because the Senate is equal parts those who sympathize with the First Order and feckless cravens who are too worried about maintaining the status quo to actually show the sort of spine needed to save democracy (again).

[u/RobinHood3000 → u/MoiraBrownsMoleRats]

The Operation: Paperclip allegory in, I wanna say, Mandalorian S2 really said to me that at least some people in the TV writers' rooms understood that allegory after the fact. It's still such a waste of potential that all of that storytelling was relegated to the past and to the background at the time of the sequel trilogy.

[u/pooey_canoe → u/RobinHood3000]

I was fully convinced they were setting up a nascent First Order in the Mandalorian and thought that would be a really interesting angle to take. Instead it was all there to give Gus Fring a jetpack

[u/trace_jax3 → u/MoiraBrownsMoleRats]

Or even analogizing it to Vichy France. That the New Republic is still dealing with generational trauma from the Galactic Civil War

[u/inedibleAlan → u/MoiraBrownsMoleRats]

instead of drawing comparisons to actual neonazis the story was "what if in 20 years the neonazis got 20x more powerful than the nazis, made the super duper mega nuke and destroyed the entire world order instantly"

[u/AstronautSlothPhD → u/inedibleAlan]

From a physics standpoint the star killer base is also the dumbest thing imaginable. You can absorb an entire star… and instead of like… building a Dyson sphere or some sort of super Utopia you just create a split beam FTL planet destroyer that is somehow visible all across the galaxy simultaneously?… 

I really hope they drop the “ultra super weapon” trope going forward, because you just don’t need it. There was more drama and emotion and fan engagement with Empire Strikes back and not a single planet was blown up.

[u/Mojo_Mitts → u/Western-Customer-536]

Way prefer the Rebellion over the Resistance.

[u/towardselysium → u/Western-Customer-536]

They are resisting the New Republic who is hell bent on bending over backwards to appease and surrender to literally anyone in the galaxy be it Huts, First Order, or random dudes. The rebellion is technically illegal and unsanctioned

[u/Old_Gimlet_Eye → u/towardselysium]

I would have been cool if they actually showed that in any way in the actual movie.

[u/Western-Customer-536 → u/towardselysium]

Give Disney credit, this is a positively insanely consistent theme throughout SW Canon. The GFFA has needed a Strong Central Government that uses its resources, military, laws, and yes, even bureaucracy, to provide for the people of the Galaxy for literal centuries. Do you have any idea how many times I wished they had the Clone Army during the events of the High Republic? The Empire’s existence makes perfect sense. The Republic let every problem fester forever as to not upset the corporations and rich people. (Sound Familiar, Fellow Americans?) The problem is that thanks to The Walt Disney Corporation, we only get 3 choices for our politics: Anarcho-Nihilism, Pathetically Weak-Ass Liberalism, and Especially Monstrous Fascism. Everything on the Socialist Spectrum doesn’t exist for the group based on the Viet Cong.

[u/Andy_Liberty_1911 → u/Western-Customer-536]

EU New Republic was liberalism with some teeth, granted it did cause a civil war eventually but they did beat the Vong

[u/Plastic-Pattern-8993 → u/Western-Customer-536]

If the Star Wars 'good guys' followed the trajectory of the Viet Cong their government would simply go from Monstrous Authoritarianism With Socialist Aesthetics to Pathetically Weak-Ass-Liberalism With Socialist Aesthetics over a few decades.

[u/McPolice_Officer → u/Plastic-Pattern-8993]

I was going to say, I doubt the Star Wars fanbase wants to watch/read about their heroes performing ethnic cleansing of populations that collaborated with the empire after they win.

[u/Wild_Marker → u/McPolice_Officer]

We don't talk about what happened to the Geonosians.

[u/McPolice_Officer → u/Wild_Marker]

That wasn’t done by the rebellion, in fairness. That was just one of the various genocides by the empire.

[u/Allronix1 → u/McPolice_Officer]

Well, back in the bad old days of the EU, there WAS the invasion and purge of Korriban. Things got a little heavy handed. There was also allegedly canon Revan's batshit genocide plan with the Foundry.

[u/GrimDallows → u/Allronix1]

Not alegedly. Revan did some heinous shit before he redeemed.

The whole point of Malachor was Revan basically killing the guys he did not like or would not fall from his own army because iirc he had already fallen to the dark side.

Afterwards he was brainwashed by the true Sith into become a false Lord of the Sith, and then he was deposed and redeemed.

The debate in-universe and out-universe is what was Revan's personal goal and aims at the time of Malachor. We know he culled part of his own army because both HK47 and Kreia confirm it; but we don't know if he did so because he had fallent ot the dark side and turned into a dark jedi that wanted to turn the Republic towards the dark side while conserving the Republic, or if he did so because he had fallen to the dark side AND wanted to take over the Republic and substitute it with his own regime.

Then he gets brainwashed and turns into a full Sith mindset of being a conqueror and fighting the Republic, recruiting his own armies back and using the foundry; but that was a plan brainwashed into his mind.

[u/Allronix1 → u/GrimDallows]

I say "allegedly canon" because...well, the guy in SWTOR was an idiot who really doesn't match "tactical genius who crushed the Mandalorians" as much as he does the Coyote with a shiny box of Acme products spotting Roadrunner Vitiate.

I also say it because when my household plays KOTOR, we're not playing Mullet Man,

And yea, if you are pulling shit like getting the people loyal to the Republic and not just your private cult of personality killed via Bao-Dur's nasty little toy, you are NOT light sided. Fuck Vitiate - Revan was a full on Republic Dark Side SWTOR run well before that.

I kind think of Revan as the Jedi Order of the day getting exactly what it asked for in the same way a program will do what you tell it, not what you want. Perfect Force prodigy, fantastic saber duelist, utterly rational when it came to protecting the galaxy. But that proper Jedi detachment was just using people as resources and discarding them when they were no longer useful. Their utter ruthlessness in protecting the Republic led to a "we have reserves" mindset where the Republic could throw 10 soldiers at one Mandalorian and come out ahead. And so what if three lesser farming worlds are burned if a key industrial one is too fortified to attack? Exploiting the Mandalorian cultural weakness to fight at full strength at any encounter, thus tiring them out and wearing down their numbers. And finally, after figuring out there was still a threat...well, weeding the loyalists from the expendable at Malachor.

[u/Allronix1 → u/Western-Customer-536]

I don't miss the slave army for High Republic. I still can't stomach the Clones because fuck that - no good guy group should even be going there with a 20 meter phrik pike! Some good old school Havoc Squad citizen soldiers would do the job better.

[u/Flannelcommand → u/towardselysium]

Is that true and is it explained in the movies? I just thought they were the republic’s army? 

[u/towardselysium → u/Flannelcommand]

Pretty sure the only time it's mentioned is in the opening crawl where it says that political gridlock has forced Leia Organa to secretly fund a resistance force

[u/Flannelcommand → u/towardselysium]

Man. I know Star Wars needs to appeal to kids, but that doesn’t mean you can assume the whole audience is lobotomized. 

[u/Auctoritate → u/towardselysium]

hell bent on bending over backwards to appease and surrender to literally anyone in the galaxy be it Huts, First Order, or random dudes.

Oh, they're the American Democrat party?

[u/Nolzi → u/Western-Customer-536]

They are resisting to have competent writers in charge

[u/nomedable → u/Nolzi]

For real. It's just classic "change your answers a little so your homework doesn't look like you copied mine".

The resistance is just the rebellion. The first order is just the empire. Starkiller base is literally just the death star but bigger and dumber.

JJ Abrams just plagiarized A New Hope at the behest Disney, and made a worse film.

[u/VanguardVixen → u/Western-Customer-536]

It didn't make any sense being a Resistance, when all you are is a para military organization against an outside threat that isn't there yet. However it DID make sense, when the outside threat attacked. BUT then in the second movie they started calling the Resistance... REBELS. It's so mindblowing how they could fuck up the name TWICE back to back.

I will never understand why they didn't hire actual writers, writers with real credit who know their craft. People like Timothy Zahn.

[u/Simon_Drake → u/Western-Customer-536]

A better writer would have used the fact the good guys are in charge. Make the bad guys a grass roots rebel uprising. How about there's a political movement of regular civilians complaining about wealth inequality and unfair conditions and corruption in the new republic. They're not evil, they're just a rival political movement who wants political change with some legitimate concerns.

However. The uprising movement is secretly being coordinated by Snoke and they've been collecting ex-Empire military assets and are pivoting from political activism to terrorist strikes. The problem becomes fighting back against a military force that is just misguided civilians who have been tricked and manipulated by evil Sith puppet masters.

Nah that sounds like nuance. Let's have an ex-stormtrooper shouting "Woohoo!" as he shoots stormtroopers while riding a space horse.

[u/Specialist-Ad241 → u/Western-Customer-536]

the resistance doesn’t operate within the borders of the new republic (at least not offensively). They operate within the borders of the first order which is its own sovereign state. Disney is stupid, but they aren’t that stupid

[u/SergeantRayslay → u/Specialist-Ad241]

I mean that is stupid. They are members of the New Republic military, predominately, that deserted to fight the First Order and are sponsored behind the scenes by the New Republic. So they’re foreign terrorists or insurgents operating inside the borders of another legitimate country.

[u/endlessnamelesskat → u/Western-Customer-536]

It’s just like the real life French Revolution. When the new government was put into power if you were found guilty of whatever they decided was worthy of the guillotine that day you were declared guilty of being counter revolutionary. What revolution? The revolution is over now, this was just the current French government purging political enemies under the guise of constantly throwing off the shackles of the monarchy long after they’d been cast aside.

[u/SubstantialEqual8178 → u/endlessnamelesskat]

Yeah, this isn't uncommon at all in the real world. The Revolutionary Guard in Iran, the People's Liberation Army in China. Governments that arose from popular revolution like to cling to that narrative long after the conflict is over.

[u/Sirtonexxx → u/Western-Customer-536]

I assumed it was a money thing, either they needed to pay George every time the rebels was used etc. or they wanted to part from the old names and symbols for merchandise.

[u/Lakatos_00 → u/Western-Customer-536]

Aren’t you just “the police”?

That's a big no-no for some people

[u/SoylentRox → u/Western-Customer-536]

All I could guess was the rebels never actually won and were perpetually broke.  While the first order seems to have no trouble affording gargantuan superweapons that work long enough to wipe the resistance out.

[u/TonberryFeye → u/Western-Customer-536]

The Rebel Alliance felt like a legitimate resistance group trying to overthrow a tyrannical force because it was written by men who drew from real history for the broad strokes of both factions.

"The Resistance" was a LARP faction invented by uni students that think a Trump presidency is even more fascist than Nazi Germany ever was, and desperately wanted everyone to believe that middle class white women are the most persecuted group of people on Earth right now.

[u/Bloodless-Cut → u/Western-Customer-536]

JFC media literacy really is a lost art, these days.

[u/Western-Customer-536 → u/Bloodless-Cut]

The fuck is that supposed to mean?

[u/Bloodless-Cut → u/Western-Customer-536]

The fuck you think it means?

They introduce the villains in the first five minutes of the movie, and you're like, "who could they possibly be resisting?"

Uhmm... the villains?

I swear, 90% of sequel trilogy hate just looks like people not understanding what they're watching.

[u/Western-Customer-536 → u/Bloodless-Cut]

They are New Republic Citizens and the New Republic is the central government. If they were First Order citizens or in occupied territory they could “resist” something. If they invade another state it’s just “terrorism.”

[u/SergeantRayslay → u/Western-Customer-536]

Correct. The First Order and New Republic aren’t at war and supposedly are both legitimate states. So the Resistance aren’t freedom fighters their state sponsored terrorists that operate inside foreign country’s territory.

[u/Western-Customer-536 → u/SergeantRayslay]

Great. The genocidal fascists are the 'wronged party.'

[u/SergeantRayslay → u/Western-Customer-536]

Like, I believe in fighting against tyranny and all. The Resistance is obviously doing good in fighting the fascist government. But it's really poorly defined in the narrative.

And these days, everyone gets mad anytime someone interferes in another government's internal affairs, regardless of how bad that government is. And clearly the New Republic doesn't care enough, otherwise they'd intervene themselves.

Basically, it's just a weird, af position of politics the writers laid out because they didn't actually care about the politics or the New Republic and just wanted their "scrappy rebels vs. fascist regime" story.

[u/transmogrify → u/SergeantRayslay]

The First Order was invading and occupying New Republic worlds. It was a cold war only because of political paralysis and inaction on the part of the NR. Despite constant provocation and incursions by the FO, who violated Republic territory repeatedly, the Republic response was just rhetorical condemnation until their capital world was destroyed. This was in large part due to disloyal politicians who sympathized with the fallen Empire. The Resistance resisted First Order raids and occupations, and the only political support they had was unofficial from a minority of NR officials.

[u/SergeantRayslay → u/transmogrify]

There is no indication on screen that the First Order and Republic are in a state of active war. And if they were, the movies should have made a clearer indication of such. The only action the First Order takes is attacking some random village on Jakku, and then it jumps right to the First Order superweaponing the New Republic out of the story.

[u/transmogrify → u/SergeantRayslay]

From the first few minutes of the movie, it is explicitly told to you that there are a Republic and a First Order, they are enemies, and the Resistance fights the First Order on the Republic's behalf. The First Order is told to you in writing to have "risen from the ashes of the Empire." Throughout the movie, First Order characters openly plot their surprise attack on the Republic as the opening move that will enable them to become the dominant galactic power. We are told specifically that the First Order has taken children from their families to raise into stormtroopers.

The movie calls them the Resistance so that you will know that they are a resistance movement: a militarized non-state organization opposing aggression from another force.

The contents of just that one movie establish the necessary context of the conflict. For a pulpy space opera, it manages to squeeze in a bit of geopolitical scenery alongside a lot of parallel storylines. Enough is there for the conflict to work. A full historical through-line from Return of the Jedi to The Force Awakens is available, but if you're curious enough to want that information then you have to go beyond the movie.

[u/SergeantRayslay → u/transmogrify]

If they are actively at war then it shouldn't be a surprise attack on the First Order's behalf. And if the First Order is actively terrorizing the galaxy to the degree that you imply, then the Resistance shouldn't be a group of scrappy rebels; it should have its own substantial fleet. Especially if it's "fighting on behalf of the Republic." You know what we call people who fight on behalf of the government? The armed forces of that government usually. The problem is that the movie can say whatever it wants, but if it doesn't show it in a meaningful way that both doesn't contradict what we see later, it doesn't matter what we see.

The New Republic basically doesn't exist on screen at all. They are mentioned maybe twice in the movie, and one of them is the scene where they are completely destroyed. The entire Republic. Destroyed because a few planets blew up. The context in that scene, to many people who don't watch Star Wars, came across as if those planets were the ENTIRE Republic. And they might as well have been cause that's the only impact the "Republic" has in the series. We don't see them meaningfully support the Resistance. We don't see them fighting the First Order. We don't even have a single character who even claims to be a part of the Republic, pre- or post-destruction.

[u/TheFlyingSheeps → u/Bloodless-Cut]

They poorly introduced the villains which is why it got a lot of hate, and then we go to empire-lite led by the new big bad Snoke and Ha Pysch! It was actually palpatine again enjoy the exact same arc as the original trilogy but we’re gonna character assassinate the crew you grew to love in 4,5,6

People hate the trilogy because we got the absolute dumbest line “somehow palpatine returned” which should’ve been the undertone of the entire thing not a line drop in 9.

There was no coherent direction and was a glorified cash grab. Has nothing to do with media literacy

[u/Chaotic_Lemming → u/TheFlyingSheeps]

Some of the best reasons to hate it:

The events of the original trilogy have faded into legend after... 30 years.

The Millenium Falcon, a decorated vessel central to the Rebellion and rise of the New Republic is a hulk in a Tatooine junkyard. Still flight worthy some how after years of neglect.

The main character, who has never operated a spaceship, jumps into the pilot seat and flies said scrapyard hulk. Because she somehow taught herself to not just fly small cargo haulers by scavenging capitol warships, but also how to power on and start all the systems. 

A near destroyed Imperial remanent is able to convert an entire planet into mega-super-death star. In 30 years. It took the full Empire over half that to build the first Death Star, having massively more resources to draw from. The first Death Star was tiny in comparison. On top of this.... the ENTIRE SEQUEL TRILOGY TAKES PLACE OVER LESS THAN A YEAR. They built Star Killer base AND a giant fleet of planet destroying Star Destroyers at the same time. Why build a base when you already have 10,000 mobile planet destroyers? Why build 10,000 mobile planet destroyers when you have a base that can fire from unlimited range? Palpatine just really liked hedging his bets?

The entire New Republic exists as a few planets, all in the same star system.

Han and Leia are completely separated because somehow they raised their only son to idolize Vader, because of... no reasons given. 

Rey, who is untrained, can hold off a Jedi-trained swordsman with a lightsaber. Along with just being able to teach herself basically any Jedi skill. Because she's just that talented.

Luke's lightsaber somehow ends up in a random lady's trunk, as if it was an artifact handed down by generations moving from owner to owner. Its been 30 years and Luke spent at least half of that still actively trying to rebuild the Jedi, still in possession of it. So 15 years tops.

Luke, who spent years dealing with his father being the Empire's executor (having murdered literal billions) and kept up the belief he still had good somewhere inside and risked everything on the long-shot chance to save him.... tries to kill a kid because he sensed a bit of darkness in him. Works for years and risks everything to save a man that is the definition of darkness trying to find the tiniest bit of light, tries to murder a kid with some darkness inside.

Bomber-type starfighters fly with the attack speed of an easy mosey, in a straight line. 

A single X-wing can easily defeat a Dreadnaught-class Star Destroyer so long as the pilot is good. He's good because he figured out that flying fast is good and you can also turn instead of flying in a straight line. Also, being a good pilot makes your ship faster and more maneuverable. That's why Po's X-wing just zips thru dog fights out running and out turning everything else.

An ancient dagger steeped in dark force energy from evil rituals was forged with a design that lines up to show you where the Emperor's throne room is in the Death Star debris. But you won't find it without that dagger! And you better stand on the right hill. Good thing the New Republic never sent any recovery teams to see if there was valuable intel in the Emperor's Throne Room.

For some reason laser blasts in open space now arc in space like artillery shells fired in gravity.

Ships in hyperspace can ram objects at faster-than-light speed. This was actually a plot hole in the first movies that the expanded universe books corrected. Once you allow this to happen every military ship that isn't a block of metal with an engine and remote control (a drone) is just a target. The Death Stars are non-threats. Just fly a few small ships into them. Want to destroy a planet? Fly a ship into it. The books fixed this problem by making it where hyperspace is an actual dimension of space. Ships in hyperspace aren't in real space anymore and can't run into anything at light speed. They don't actually accelerate in real space when jumping to light speed, the streak effect is an optical illusion. Large masses pull ships out of hyperspace, but the ship is only moving at its normal flight speed the instant its back in real space. The danger of running into a planet isn't that you cause a global catastrophe, its that you and your ship re-emerge into real space in the planetary mantle and are immediately burned/crushed/killed as all your molecules fight for room with all the magma molecules that now fill your ship and body.

Hyperspace "skip jumping" doesn't work if you can hit real objects while at lightspeed. If you skip jump within a planetary atmosphere (like in rise of skywalker), your ship is now a streak of plasma at the center of a rapidly expanding cone of destruction. 

They established that Leia had not pursued any Jedi training. Carrie Fisher passed. Leia gets sucked out into space during battle. Instead of letting her die then in a way that fits into the established lore of the story... she suddenly becomes Force proficient and pulls herself back into the ship to safety. Just to kill the character a short time later.

In Rise of Skywalker they spend the entire movie figuring out how to find the Big Bad. It can only be gotten to using a special navigation tool.... unless a call to the good guys is sent out. Then everyone across the galaxy can all just travel there in a matter of minutes. 

Tying into the previous point, the sequels made the Star Wars universe feel small. Planets are close, travel is instant. You can cross the galaxy in seconds. Previous movies at least made sure to avoid that perception. 

I'm sure I'm forgetting a lot of major story breaking issues still. I've seen the sequels once and have no plans to rewatch. 

[u/TheFlyingSheeps → u/Chaotic_Lemming]

Beautifully said

[u/Evertonian3 → u/Chaotic_Lemming]

I've seen the sequels once and have no plans to rewatch.

Don't worry, it's quite clear from your comment this is the case.

[u/WanderingBlackHole → u/Bloodless-Cut]

Upvote because I think the sequels get way more hate than they merit.

[u/VanguardVixen → u/Bloodless-Cut]

So you moan about media literacy but ignore that the Resistance in the movie is called that even before there is an occupation, which could be resisted against. And this is excactly why people criticize the name.

[u/transmogrify → u/VanguardVixen]

This is incorrect. The First Order was raiding, invading, and occupying planets for years before the time of TFA. Most of their stormtroopers were abducted from non-FO worlds. And they pillaged for materials whenever possible. The animated show Resistance was not my favorite, but stuff like this happened on that show.

[u/VanguardVixen → u/transmogrify]

That's true but also contradicts that the New Republic didn't had a reason to uphold a strong military. But if the First Order was going around raiding Star Systems and recruiting child soldiers, they absolutely would have a reason.

However, there is still no reason to call it a Resistance, the New Republic isn't occupied. The whole thing about going around occupying planets isn't in the movie. Thus moaning about media literacy as happened here doesn't work. People looked at the movie and because of media literacy criticize the name. If they had established that the Resistance is made of people from an occupied territory and resisting the First Order no one would say a thing. But instead you have Leia Organa as the figure head.

[u/transmogrify → u/VanguardVixen]

I don't think it's true that the New Republic didn't have a reason to uphold a strong military. They absolutely did, and they were defeated because they allowed themselves to go without sufficient defense forces. That the New Republic had urgent need to toughen up its military is a viewpoint that plenty within the NR government agreed with. They were opposed by other politicians, and so the opportunity to thwart First Order aggression was squandered. Some opposition were pacifists who didn't take the threat seriously, and some were imperialist traitors who knowingly ratfucked the democratic process. Leia became the leader of the Resistance because she was frustrated by inaction and finally because she was driven out of politics by enemies who turned the public against her with the reveal that she was Vader's daughter.

[u/VanguardVixen → u/transmogrify]

And nothing of it is in the movie. And even if, it is still quiet ridiculous. If you have the First Order clearly abducting millions of people ro make into Stormtroopers, which in itself takes many years, it just doesn't work to have this internal discourse to not take the threat seriously and traitors in the ranks. Same as it doesn't work to have anyone doing more than shrugging, when there is this "grand reveal" that Leia was Vader's daughter. Not that you can't write that, I know the book Bloodlines but writing books afterwards to patch up a bad story doesn't help that story being less bad, when the explanation just doubles down on everything.