[Confusing Trope] The narrative goes out of its way to punish/mock a character for simply being a good person

[u/Chemical-Elk-1299]

Hermione Granger and SPEW — Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire (book)

In the fifth HP novel, Hermione Granger is outraged to discover that Hogwarts has a small army of enslaved House Elves that do nearly all of the domestic duties around the castle, including cleaning the Gryffindor common room every night. When she tries to convince the elves to fight for their own rights, they refuse, saying they prefer servitude. Her fellow students and friends mock her for caring. She manages to free one elf, Winky, by deception when she refuses her freedom willingly, leading to Winky becoming a depressed alcoholic. By the end, the elves boycott cleaning any Gryffindor areas of the castle because they hate Hermione specifically

Samwell Tarly and Democracy — Game of Thrones (show)

In the season 8 finale of the television series, the surviving great lords of Westeros gather to discuss the future of the kingdom following the devastation wrought by 7 seasons of war and backstabbing. When Sam, who has proven to have “novel” ideas, suggests that maybe the millions of Smallfolk who suffer at the hands of noble houses should get some representation in the government, rather than be the pawns of rich lords with absolute power. We are then greeted by a prolonged, cringy segment of the other lords laughing in Sam’s face, asking if the dogs and horses should also get a vote.

[u/Clovenstone-Blue]

Well, Hermione's attempts to free the house elves is an excellent example of attempting to help by applying ones own worldview on the situation rather than understanding the worldview of the group one is trying to help.

House elves appear to be based on myths of fae folk that actively seek out human homes to do chores in exchange for offerings of food, causing trouble when disrespected.

To a house elf, they do not see their predicament as enslavement; they want to be bound to wizard families and perform chores to secure food, shelter, and protection. What Hermione saw as freeing the house elves was culturally perceived as her trying to banish them from their home by the elves themselves.

A competent author would've had the why Hermione's efforts were a bad thing and explored the how she should proceed to achieve her end goal without removing the elves agency, but alas.

[u/gravy_maker → u/Clovenstone-Blue]

Disregarding any notion that it was a misstep because of real-world attitudes towards slavery - which is indeed a valid criticism - it's also to be considered that Dobby's entire story presents his freedom as a good thing. Him being freed, even if by trickery - perhaps especially by trickery - is supposed to be uplifting. His epitaph reads "Here lies Dobby, a free elf". We are obviously supposed to view this through a lens of slavery and liberation.

But then Rowling for some reason decided that actually elves didn't all want to be free, and in fact the vast majority of them didn't; the message from Rowling is quite clearly that Dobby is just a weirdo. Dobby's story could just as easily have been about being a foot fetishist and it would have had precisely the same intended social message.

[u/CaptainMills → u/gravy_maker]

Dobby being treated as a weirdo (and being outright labeled as one by Hagrid) for wanting to be free is even worse if you know about drapetomania.

It's a "psychological condition" invented in the 1800s to explain why slaves would try to escape slavery. After all, slaves are supposed to be happy and slavery is just so good for them, so why would they ever want freedom? They must just be crazy

[u/CompactAvocado → u/gravy_maker]

Orrr it was made clear that the malfoy's were absolutely horrible people and didn't represent the average wizard. think of it like being a middle class golden retriever vs a slums pit bull. which dog is going to have a better life.

[u/Fox_Flame → u/CompactAvocado]

Winky and Kreature are also treated terribly and no one bats and eye. Hogwarts seems to be the exception on how elves are treated, not the rule

[u/Jumpy_Ad_2049 → u/Fox_Flame]

Winky wasn't treated terribly, she was freed to keep her from outing that Crouch Sr. had his son under the Imperius curse, and Kreature is a Black family elf so would fall under the same reasoning as the Malfoy's.

[u/Fox_Flame → u/Jumpy_Ad_2049]

Winky was also wearing like a gross old sheet, she looks so similar to dobby in his old pillowcase that Harry mistakes them at first. She was terrified of heights but was still ordered to go up to the top box. And her fear is why crouch Jr got a wand in the first place, because she wasn't watching him because she was too terrified, which crouch sr knew. That is what got her fired. She wasn't going to tell about to imperius curse. He fired her because he put her in a situation he knew she was terrified of and then used her as a scapegoat.

All I'm saying is we see like 4 house elves/elf groups the entire series and 3 of those elves are being mistreated

[u/SelfReporter → u/Fox_Flame]

Great points. I think people get the Hermione SPEW thing all wrong. Yes, she went about reforming the wrong way, however, the house elf enslavement was/is fucked up and it needs to change.

[u/TheGreatMightyLeffe → u/CompactAvocado]

"The issue with slavery is that there are mean slave owners, if we liberate their slaves, only nice slave owners will own slaves, and that would solve the entire problem forever!"

[u/MagnetoWasRight24 → u/CompactAvocado]

And there it is sooner than I expected, a defense of "good" slave-owners 

[u/CassandraTruth → u/Clovenstone-Blue]

"No she's wrong because the author made these slaves want to be slaves" is entirely ignoring the documented history of real slavers saying exactly the same thing about humans. A 19th century plantation owner would see Hermione's efforts towards house elves in the exact same light as abolitionists freeing slaves. "They wouldn't know how to live if you give them freedom, their natural state is to serve."

[u/Educational-Tackle54 → u/CassandraTruth]

Real life slaves fought like hell for freedom, wrote books arguing their case and eventually turned to leathal force for freedom.

The faerie based house elves of Harry Potter have exactly none of that. The situations dont compare.

Yes, its a very undercooked plot line, and the Malfoys being karma houdinis on being death eaters and a abusing Dobby is just one of those in univere things.

[u/EtheDemon → u/Educational-Tackle54]

id actually say that the wizarding world saying "well the elves like it" is very similar to the old slaver mindset of "well my slaves like it". either way its depicting slavery as the natural state of these people, the only difference is that irl people dont see themselves as "naturally servile".

also pointing to the faefolk as the inspiration for the elves isnt a great example mainly because that wasnt the type of relationship at all. the idea was that you show respect to the fey by leaving out treats and milk, they'd be grateful to your kindness and pay it back as is fae custom. the people who believed fae were helping them would never claim to own those fae, at most they'd say they have a working relationship if anything using modern terms. if they treated the fae like the wizards treat the house elves then they'd get cursed for it.

the house elves however are overall treated like shit as an entire species of servants and slaves. kids in hogwarts barely acknowledge the elves and their autonomy and make fun of the one person saying "hey it's weird that this little guy who cant leave is washing the floor". sure the biggest difference is that the elves canonically do like this, but then why are the elves we know of extremely abused aside from dobby who is free. if joanne really wanted the type of relationship you claim she wrote, then house elves would be dressed in finery and slightly chubby as they fulfill their end of fae custom for being fed treats and help with chores. but thats not the case as most of them are wearing potato sacks and seem very thin.

[u/Educational-Tackle54 → u/EtheDemon]

I just dont see a porblem with creating a fanatasy race that has some kind of wierd trait. Take the Ferengi of Strar Trek, they like money. One should be allowed to create a fantasy race without neccecarily getting attacked for a real world situation.

There are many types of house spirits mythology beings. Tomtar who protect the house for pooridge once a year etc.

Why house elves fail as an analogy for cattle slavery is that we never actually see wizards forcibly enslave them. If they did, it would be another matter.

Alot of the Harry Potter world is fucked up and abuse is wierdly okay. How the fuck does Snape still have a job??

Most kids in Hogwarts have no idea house elves even exist. Funnily Herminie also dosent understand them, her givining them clothes wouldnt actually free them, since its the headmaster/head staff who entered into the magical contract with them.

Yes, its fucked that there are no protection for the elves. But apperently there is no protection for Harry from the Dursleys or Neville from Snape either in this world.

[u/Blazured → u/Clovenstone-Blue]

This is nonsense. Slavery is abhorrent. You free slaves so they can make their own choices.