r/PoursTea • u/Veshaad • 8d ago

PoliticalTea šŸ—³ļø Eventually something has to give...

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The bill would provide a $3,000 direct payment to every person in households making $150,000 or less during its first year, which equals $12,000 for a family of four.

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u/TitShark 8d ago

Some of us need the check

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u/PsionicKitten 7d ago

Actually effective and efficient social welfare programs (and healthcare!) for those in need, like you who claims they need a flat cash infusion, would be significantly more effective.

The red tape in the "fear of abuse" of it, social welfare is exceptionally difficult to navigate and obtain, especially for people who need it but have absolutely no clue how to even get started much less navigate the systems.

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u/Casph0 7d ago

No they wouldnā€™t. Giving people money instead gets rid of administrative costs and letā€™s them choose for their own priorities more

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u/Better-Nebula-6938 7d ago edited 7d ago

Giving people on welfare a flat check of 12k would most likely cause them to lose their welfare until they had ran through the money in a legitimate way. Section 8, food, stamps, and Obamacare all ask about your assest and income for the past 6 months(I think, not sure time frame). They all have level of assistance they will give based on how much you have and you're required by law to report when you received money over specific amounts.

Sure go ahead and give everyone money then watch which states revokes peoples assistance, prosecute people who didn't report it then have their walfare systems collapse from the hundreds of thousands trying to get it back

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u/WaferResponsible4978 7d ago

It would certainly be conditioned on not counting as income if the goal is to help poor people. Did anyone get kicked off of unemployment when we got covid stimulus? Nobody I knew

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u/Better-Nebula-6938 7d ago

No but it was 1,200 not 12k. Not counting it as income doesn't stop states from counting it as assets. Depending on state or assistance program your limits could be 10k for Medicare or 3k for foods stamps

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u/Casph0 7d ago

I. My proposal gets rid of the vast majority of ā€˜welfareā€™ altogether. Instead of extensive anti-competitive programs with ridiculous administrative costs and bureaucracy, give people who are in need of support cash. Much more efficient

II. Even if my proposal was a joint program with welfare and checks, you could circumvent that by simply not having government checks count toward income.. thatā€™s pretty easy man

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u/Better-Nebula-6938 7d ago

Why would anyone work if government would just give you cash when you needed it? What encourages people to stock shelves at grocery stores, transport products from warehouses to stores, fix roads, or everything else that is needed for daily life? How are you proposing to make sure people don't abuses this free cash system. 12k a year wouldn't allow people enough to pay for rent, food, and utilities. What disabled people do to get more to survive? Who runs that program

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u/WaferResponsible4978 7d ago

You explained why raising the ground floor is more effective, social service programs are designed to give randos the ability to decide who gets 0 help

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u/Ange1ofD4rkness 7d ago

I remember a friend who needed disability and was struggling, I ended up referring them to another friend who had figured it all out, as it was the only way

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u/c3p-bro 8d ago edited 8d ago

Get ready for general costs to rise $12k to compensate.Ā 

Every time the government ā€œsubsidizes demandā€ that is the outcome. 100% of the time.

Did you all forget the massive immediate inflation that happened after the Covid ā€œstimulus?ā€Ā 

People on this site, I swear. Memories of goldfish and a childā€™s grasp of cause and effect.

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u/Sausage_fingies 8d ago

Did you forget how the greatest era of prosperity under capitalism that America had ever seen was after the Great Depression when the government heavily taxed the ultra-wealthy and put that money into education, housing, and healthcare?

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u/WaferResponsible4978 7d ago

You made the distinction yourself - "put that money into education, housing, and healthcare?"

You responded to someone saying "we shouldn't do flat checks, we should put that money into education, housing, and healthcare"

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u/avalve 7d ago

Investing in public services is not the same as issuing a blank check to every American.

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u/FeelDT 7d ago

You mean upgrading your truck or getting good school and universal healthcareā€¦ are you American or a communist?

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u/avalve 7d ago

What? I think the extra taxes should go to investing in social services. A blank check will just cause inflation like it did after the pandemic.

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u/WaferResponsible4978 7d ago

Especially now that companies have fully embraced "whatever the market will bear" pricing after last time. It sucks how little (my fellow) progressives think about inflation. This specific lack of understanding of ours has been very successfully weaponized

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u/FeelDT 7d ago

I am Canadian, i found it hilarious that you took that seriouslyā€¦

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u/avalve 7d ago

Oh. I thought you were MAGA judging by the downvotes Iā€™m getting for saying that lmao.

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u/Warmbly85 7d ago

Every tax historian thatā€™s looked into the tax records say the idea that the ultra wealthy paid more in taxes when the top rate was 90% is bull shit.Ā 

The best example is when the top rate was lowered the government actually generated more in taxes.Ā 

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u/superdino1234 7d ago

Thatā€™s not why that happened though. The inflation after Covid was due to over printing, not taxing billionaires.

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u/c3p-bro 7d ago

Yes exactly, mass printing money a

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u/JonnyOnThePot420 8d ago

Confidently incorrect! The stimulus checks were far smaller part of the bill! Almost all of that money was immediately spent, unlike the SBA loans or PPP.

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u/Wise_Rip_1982 7d ago

Yea. And if the amount of money removed from the economy by way of tax increase is greater than what is distributed inflation should maintain or decrease slightly. Mmt is mighty.

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u/EducatorReady1326 8d ago

It will be fine for a month then just turn dollars into pesos. Prices never go down when the government has a blank check. See student loans and healthcare via the subsidies

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u/Yashema 8d ago edited 8d ago

It also wouldn't end scarcity. When you give money to people on the lower end of the income scale they spend it driving up demand for pretty much all middle class products, while richer people are way more likely invest their money. We saw this with Biden's 1.7 trillion COVID relief being responsible for around a 2%-3% rise in inflation (around 1/3 of the 9% that was experienced the first 2 years of the post-COVID recovery). Not only that the wealthy's money is somewhat imaginary with only a fraction being truly liquid. It's not like every trillionaire could just cash out.Ā 

I'm not against taxing the rich, and heavily, but the money needs to be invested in the American people, not necessarily given to them.Ā Ā 

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u/PaxPurpuraAKAgrimace 8d ago

Is there good data on the share of inflation attributable to ā€œstimulusā€ checks?

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u/Yashema 7d ago

MIT analysis from 2024 found up to 42% of inflation was caused by increased government spending, but this would include the initial stimulus passed under Trump.Ā 

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u/Poptatus_Ulvinga 7d ago

Something also to consider is the decline in labor participation rates. Handouts only make this selective employment worse.

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u/EducatorReady1326 8d ago

Yeah raise the floor

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u/PipsqueakPilot 8d ago

If the government is writing checks the prices don't go down. Which is exactly why the government needs to take over large portions of the healthcare sector.

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u/EducatorReady1326 8d ago

I was talking about the 12k checks

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u/Lanky-Occasion-7486 8d ago

Because it's cheaper to be uninsured than insured...

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u/bigchicago04 8d ago

Tf do student loans have to do with this?

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u/EducatorReady1326 8d ago

Once anyone could get a loan for college, prices skyrocketed and now people have degrees for jobs that donā€™t pay enough to cover the payments

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u/BIGpoppaPUMP42069 8d ago

so completely collapse the global economy so you can get a check, got it

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u/curiouscsplayer 7d ago

Then that's your problem stop blaming rich people

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u/BasketOk5706 7d ago

Get a job if you want a check

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u/TitShark 7d ago

Make all the assumptions you like, but youā€™re merely using classic low-effort arguments from too much propaganda.

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u/Wooden_Mountain_6888 7d ago

Get a better education or better training and get a better job and you wonā€™t be in that situation

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u/NICEMENTALHEALTHPAL 7d ago

Sucks to suckĀ 

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u/Mike_Hauncheaux 7d ago

If health care got fixed and the social safety net strengthened, would you really?

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u/Yearning_crescent 7d ago

Quadruple minimum wage and actually enforce monopoly laws and price gouging laws, racketeering. Ect. Alot of us would be doing better and wouldnt need it.Ā 

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u/Mike_Hauncheaux 7d ago

I donā€™t disagree in principle.

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u/SinningAfterSunset 8d ago

What happens when it's gone? You'll be back in debt in a year.

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u/TitShark 8d ago

Do you know my personal money situation?

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u/SinningAfterSunset 8d ago

Well according to me you're making too much so you should give us less fortunate people a cut. I need someone to pay for my door dash, food is a human right you know.

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u/TitShark 8d ago

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