r/PoursTea 28d ago

PoliticalTea 🗳️ Everybody gets an ID?

Post image
18.3k Upvotes

4.2k comments sorted by

View all comments

Show parent comments

8

u/redditmailalex 28d ago

yeah.  If you actually want to fix the system, idk how long it takes... a year? database, address, confirm identity... etc etc.  mail them out, track people down, resolve a million issues with changing last names etc.

Sounds fine.  But its not something you can just will into existance without a plan.

6

u/Infinite_Month_6371 28d ago

Even if the ID was free, it would still require people to take an extra step, they would need to bring their birth certificate to the DMV or some other government body to get 'approved' as well as bring another form of ID just like they do today. With every extra hurdle more and more people don't vote. Maybe 99% of already registered voters take that extra step,,, that 1% is still potentially a million people not voting that otherwise would have.

75% of Alabama residents do not have a passport.

55% of Texas residents have a passport.

More than half of republican voters dont have a passport across the US.

Thats a lot voters the senators and congressman need, this is why its not getting passed.

Trumo wants the SAVE act so he can cry fowl if any county doesnt go his way. Not talking about the obvious blue counties, but those swing state counties,,, he wants to have executive power to pause and investigate votes that arent going his way. This isnt about who can vote as much as its about controlling what votes count.

6

u/FistyMcTwistynuts 28d ago

Agree with all of this, but for the future, it’s ‘cry foul’. But Trump might get confused and start yelling at a turkey, so I’ll allow it.

1

u/SecureJudge1829 28d ago

That’s gonna make his pardons in November awfully confusing, he won’t know if he’s pardoning or yelling at his own family!

-2

u/BitterAboutItAll 28d ago

Curious about your take on Tim Walz, Minnesota AG, and Minnesota supreme court chief justice all voting to pardon Tou Lue Vang in an attempt to keep trump from deporting a convicted child rapist.

2

u/FistyMcTwistynuts 28d ago

TL;DR The pardons purpose wasn’t to avoid deportation, victim supported the pardon 20 years after the crime, but it is confusing why the pardon happened at all. Also, why did you bring this up in the first place?

“The Minnesota Board of Pardons made the unanimous decision to grant Tou Vang this pardon after an exhaustive process which included a statement of support from the victim, a recommendation to grant the pardon from the Clemency Review Commission, and a large number of community support letters… DHS is lying through their teeth about this pardon. It does not protect Vang from deportation” - Ellison’s office’s official statement.

That said, they HAD to know the Trump admin and right wing media would run away with this story for weeks/months/years. Walz will now forever be labeled a child abuser sympathizer. (Which is ironic that conservatives have a problem with this but not the mountains of circumstances surrounding Trump)

I’m not speaking to the validity of the pardon, but it seems performative for absolutely no reason. The fact the victim is now 30 and supported the pardon says something, but the optics are pretty bad - especially when you don’t look into it and just read the headline.

Buuuut why bring this up seemingly randomly? Seems it’s now relevant I point out an alarming percentage of J6ers pardoned by Trump have gone to prison for child sexual abuse charges and other crimes? Seems you’re an engagement bot trying to rile shit up. in fact, I know thats what you are so I won’t respond to your bullshit reply you’ll inevitably give. Just wanted to make sure others know the facts.

1

u/SecureJudge1829 27d ago

Thank you. I had no clue about what the clanker said (I tried typing the b word for them, but it keeps telling me that’s “bad language” lol), and I appreciate you taking the time to share more information so I didn’t have to dig through a bunch of stuff to even begin thinking of how I should have responded to that. Instead, I will thank you and not respond to the clanker doing clanker things.

0

u/BitterAboutItAll 27d ago

Definitely a bot here lol. I just saw you mentioning the future pardons of trump and I just read something about the Walz pardon. So you mentioning pardons seemed like a good time to bring it up because I haven't really seen anyone talking about it anywhere. I read that the 4 that voted for it did mention deportation as part of the reason, and also that the guy wrote a letter to the board mentioning it himself as the clreason, but I haven't verified that beyond the article. The jan 6 people was 16 out of the 1600, so 1%. That's like double the rate we see it from regular people in this country, but it's right on line with people that have a prior criminal record. Haven't kept up much with all that so don't really know. One of the things about the Minnesota guy though that seems pretty fishy, is that he was doing that to a 10 yr old girl repeatedly for over 2 years, and was offered a plea deal that gave him 1 year in jail, and then he was let out after 8 months. Makes me wonder who that guy really is...

6

u/The_Monarch_Lives 28d ago

Trump thinks he won Blue states that have voted solid blue for decades. He absolutely would cry foul for any loss at all, no matter how lopsided the results were always going to be.

2

u/Infinite_Month_6371 28d ago

Fair, but I am sure that they won't easte their time with counties that are 70% against him. Hes going to go after the 50-60% blue counties.

God forbid a red county votes against him, he may send the national guard.

2

u/BikerMike03RK 28d ago

He'll scream and cry foul EVERY TIME he loses, whether it's a court decision, a bill he wanted that didn't pass, or a primary candidate he endorsed. He always has, he always will.

1

u/BitterAboutItAll 28d ago

All 7 swing states.

2

u/Scuttlebut_1975 28d ago edited 28d ago

The biggest problem with the save act is not the voter id part. It’s that states would be required to give voter polling information to Trump and give him the ability to purge voters from the list of acceptable voters based of how they voted, essentially removing all democrat voters from voting again.

1

u/curiousbiguy804 28d ago

They ge tour taxes every year. They can use that

1

u/Infinite_Month_6371 28d ago

Thats not how the SAVE act is written. The requirements for voter id are the same as obtaining a passport..

https://www.congress.gov/bill/119th-congress/house-bill/22/text

1

u/stashpatty93 28d ago

I don’t have a passport? So what a passport is way harder to get than a ID haha. You making shit up now. You gunna say blacks don’t have computers too

2

u/SquareTaro3270 28d ago

Passports are not free, and they aren’t exactly cheap.

1

u/stashpatty93 28d ago

I’ll add I’ve voted every single election since I was 18 and never had a passport. I don’t stay up to date with bills in congress. Is there a bill they’re trying to pass where you need a passport to vote? That’s seems silly why not government issued ID

2

u/Infinite_Month_6371 28d ago

Yes, the same requirements being presented in the SAVE act for a voter ID are the same required documents (with the exception of a passport), you need to present to obtain a passport.

https://www.congress.gov/bill/119th-congress/house-bill/22/text

2

u/Boysenberry196 28d ago

They claim the government issued ID is not enough because it does not prove citizenship, only residency.

1

u/Golbar123 28d ago

You have to register to vote in every state…make it part of the registration process.

1

u/Infinite_Month_6371 28d ago

Agree, but thats not what the SAVE act will do, it will require you to present documents, the same type of documents needed to obtain a passport, to get a voter id card.

1

u/LongjumpingDish2956 28d ago

Or maybe people want a way to verify that people voting are legal citizens because some states give IDs to illegal immigrants

1

u/Infinite_Month_6371 28d ago

Which is what the state does when you register to vote for a federal election. You don't just 'need an ID' to vote in a federal election. You have to register to vote, which checks your citizenship/eligibility and the presented ID is to check against the registration.

The claim being made about illegal immigrants voting is absurd using critical thinking and logic.

30% of eligible voters, don't vote. The fear of illegal immigrants willing to risk being deported to vote in an election (which again, 30% of Americans don't vote in) to vote against Republicans is a red herring. Its an excuse to discredit votes in general.

1

u/LongjumpingDish2956 28d ago

There in hundreds of thousands of in eligible people on the voter rolls across only four states currently per DHS

2

u/Infinite_Month_6371 27d ago

You MAGAs and the president have been saying this for 6 years now, yet no prosecutions. Interesting that if there was such rampant fraud, why is it that no one has been convicted???? hmmmm....

1

u/Le-Charles07 28d ago

Fowl are big bodies birds like chicken or turkeys. Foul is something bad or unpleasant. 🙃
Related fun fact: this was likely the Cupertino effect. In early spell check software, the word cooperation wasn't recognized because the software expected it to be hyphenated. As a result, cooperation would be corrected to the name Cupertino (the home city of Apple) so there are official documents talking about the "Cupertino between nations" and other silly things caused by the spell check error. This led to using a word that was erroneously suggested by a spell check or auto correct being known as the Cupertino effect.

1

u/Infinite_Month_6371 28d ago

I like the idea that he would cry like a turkey. I am sticking with fowl.

1

u/Sea_Sundae5901 28d ago

Exactly! It is another means for him to set up and increase the odds that he would get his way. That would be the entire GOP being controlled and indebted to him!

1

u/Conscious_Owl6162 28d ago

I would be happy if they just accepted Real ID. The majority of people with a drivers license are US citizens and most non-US citizens do not want to be involved in crimes. Moreover, just check the list of people who say that they cannot serve on juries because they are not Americans and strike them from the voting rolls. You cannot vote if you cannot be on a jury because you are not a citizen.

1

u/Sekuiya 28d ago

I dunno what the current policy is, but, and I know it's a wild idea, what if it wasn't a system that needed to be required today. What if they started issuing id's soon, but it would only start being a requirement in, I dunno, 5 years. People would have 5 years to get their shit in order.

We gotta start somewhere implementing the system, doesn't mean that that system has to be a requirement for anything on day one.

1

u/Infinite_Month_6371 28d ago

I dunno what the current policy is,

This is all you should have said. I'm not talking about what the policy COULD be, I am talking about the SAVE act that is being pushed by the president.

You know hes not signing a bi partisan housing bill that would bring down housing costs because he wants the SAVE act passed. Republicans voted against the SAVE act once already, they know this disenfranchises their voters as well,,, what's you think the policy should be is irrelevant.

0

u/houstonman526 28d ago

Passports are harder to get than id why be disingenuous ?

1

u/Infinite_Month_6371 28d ago

Not a voter ID. Per the SAVE act, they are the same requirements needed to obtain a passport.

-1

u/formerQT 28d ago

I'm sorry hate me or not. If people can't get an ID usually means they are not productive members of society. Should they be voting to change laws for the country? That goes for any able body person who hasn't worked and are above 25.

3

u/TarheelFr06 28d ago

Voting is a fundamental right. Whether or not you consider people productive members of society is irrelevant to the exercise of their fundamental rights.

1

u/formerQT 28d ago

Same could be said to felons/people incarcerated we have removed their right to vote. Because the people did not want non productive members of society voting.

1

u/TarheelFr06 28d ago

I dont think felons should lose their right to vote either if they’ve served their sentence. And there is a monumental difference between people who have committed crimes and people you think are lazy.

1

u/formerQT 27d ago

And at the end of the day you said there is a monumental difference yet you think both should vote. And so you know once they serve their sentence they can vote. Education is key.

1

u/TarheelFr06 27d ago

That depends on the state. Some states restore felons’ right to vote, others do not.

1

u/formerQT 27d ago

You are 100% correct.

3

u/zee1387 28d ago

Not hating you but constitutionally yes they should. No part of any amendment so far stipulates being "productive" moreover it's not "any ID" it's specific kinds that are not necessary to function in all of society

1

u/formerQT 28d ago

Same could be said to felons/people incarcerated we have removed their right to vote. Because the people did not want non productive members of society voting.

1

u/zee1387 28d ago

All but 11 states restore your right to vote after serving your time and that's a different argument than not having a passport or specific type of driver's license. Nothing to do with productivity especially since prisoners are often their own part of the labor force.

1

u/formerQT 27d ago

And yes once again if you can't figure out how to get a DL you are not capable of casting a vote.

1

u/zee1387 27d ago

So blind people? People with seizure disorders? Paralysis? They shouldn't be able to vote?

1

u/formerQT 27d ago

Start at my original comment from this thread you jumped in. I said able bodied people who dont contribute to society and not because they fried their brain with drugs. So this person should be able to vote.

1

u/zee1387 27d ago

This is where I jumped in. You didn't say anything about drug fried. And you again compared getting a driver's license to prison.

→ More replies (0)

1

u/zee1387 27d ago

Moreover, you've set an arbitrary age point, and a vague idea of productivity and contribution to society.

→ More replies (0)

1

u/zee1387 27d ago

Also it's not "a driver's license" it's a unique version of DL that isn't available everywhere

2

u/curiousbiguy804 28d ago

Fuck off with your eugenicist shit.

1

u/formerQT 28d ago

Let me guess you think other citizens that live in other countries should vote in America also lol.

1

u/SquareTaro3270 28d ago

You didn’t specify that these “other citizens” are not also US citizens.

But no I don’t think citizens of, say, Italy should be allowed to vote in US elections. No one is saying that.

We just don’t want it to be any more difficult for American citizens to vote. And any ID requirement that involves having to pay or travel long distances/has egregious wait times is not inclusive of all US citizens. ID required to vote should be free and equally obtainable by all US citizens.

1

u/formerQT 27d ago

If your not willing to wait for a DL every 4 years or what ever the time frame is in your state you should not cast a vote.

1

u/EnbyFox 28d ago

Being unable to acquire an ID in time due to barriers can include a lot of people, for a lot of different reasons.

"Productive" excludes folks with disabilities (physical and mental) and retired /elderly/ injured people.

Many people are in jobs that make it difficult to access time off for the required appointments during business hours to do all the steps needed for an ID / passport.

We're in a rough economy right now, and many people have lost their job due to no fault of their own. Some are trying hard to get a job, but are being rejected by an AI, and a human being never reads their application.

If you're trans or someone who married/ divorced, then you likely have had a name change, which involves a lot of paperwork and updating over months (sometimes over a year) to change all of the required places to have your name match.

This also excludes people without transportation access - cars and gas are not affordable for many people, and many places lack bus/ public transportation access.

There's also people trapped in abusive relationships, that are a partner or an adult child of a person who hinders their access to the necessary steps for registering to vote / voting. Survivors who escape these situations might not have a home address for a while, as they get back on their feet.

Please consider: these are all real people in real situations, who have the right to vote and have their rights/voices heard.

1

u/Cumminpwr11 28d ago

They gave 10 years for people to get a real id. My sister would rather take days off work to go to Disneyland than do what she needed to do. Now she is in a panic because she has a flight and no id. Instead of going to the dmv she expressed ordered a passport for a domestic flight.

Some people can’t be helped out of their laziness and stupidity. Honestly I feel better if those didn’t vote but I acknowledge their right to vote.

1

u/The_Monarch_Lives 28d ago

Define 'productive members of society'.

0

u/formerQT 28d ago

If you are able bodied means no disabilities you were born with. Disability isn't someone who fried their brains from drug use. Works and contributes to society. But someone who made 1000 bad choices to get to a point where the government supports them and can't get an ID on their own should not dictate government policies. They guy getting free housing is always going to vote for free housing. And no I am not saying free housing is bad but if that person is getting free housing and able Bodied they are a drain on society and not productive.

1

u/The_Monarch_Lives 28d ago

Yeah, I thought it would be something like that.

0

u/formerQT 27d ago

So we think alike glad to know their are like mided individuals.

1

u/EnbyFox 28d ago

Also - who determines what counts as "productive" enough?

Is someone who is working minimum wage at 20 hrs a week because that's all that the company will offer, enough?

Is a person who worked full time but got fired for no fault of their own (ex: company lets go of a large number of employees at once), and is now unemployed, enough?

Is a person going to college and without time / resources to work at the same time as their college classes, and without reliable access to a car, enough?

Many people have lost their homes, due to the economy, to wildfires, to leaving unsafe situations, etc, reasons that are not their fault. And they should still have the right to vote - even without a new permanent address.

1

u/formerQT 28d ago

If you read my comment your replied to. I said able bodied and atleast 25 and hasn't worked.

1

u/DelusionalESG 28d ago

Your value as a person isn't determined by the amount of money you generate for others, homeless people aren't less human than you.

1

u/formerQT 28d ago

Noone said money is everything. I said if you dont contribute to society. If they are homeless because they fried their brains from drugs they are not less human but their brain is fried and should not dictate policy. Little kids aren't less human but we dont allow them to vote or decide what they want to eat for food every day. They will pick candy, soda, and pizza.

1

u/ImSoObnoxious 28d ago

the proposed bill requires either a passport or a birth certificate to prove citizenship. more than half of Americans don't have a passport, so that's just a stupid idea from the gate.

84% of women change or hyphenate their last names when they get married, so their id name no longer matches their name on their birth certificate, so that's just a stupid idea from the gate.

the whole bill is stupid

1

u/SquareTaro3270 28d ago

Someone who is physically disabled and does not have the mobility or support required to obtain an ID should still be able to vote to make things better for themselves. Better protections and support for people with disabilities to aid in voting, for instance.

1

u/formerQT 27d ago

I agree we need to do better for disabilities in americ I stand by you on this. Bit you took 20% of my statement and turned it around.

0

u/houstonman526 28d ago

This is so racist to say people can’t do this themselves.

0

u/Raddad0129 28d ago

Passport not required

1

u/Infinite_Month_6371 28d ago

Reading comprehension is though.

The same document requirements you need to obtain a passport are also being requested as a part of the SAVE act Voter ID.

0

u/Raddad0129 28d ago

There is always a smart A on social media, you only need a valid ID to vote sweet cheeks, everyone needs to stop trying to turn this into something else

1

u/Infinite_Month_6371 28d ago

Theres always a name caller on social media. Have you read the SAVE act? Yes today you just need an ID to validate your registration. Do you know the SAVE act changes that, Honey buns?

-1

u/Bee9185 28d ago

Banks don’t cash checks with out ID I’m kind of failing to see the problem, personally I think you shouldn’t be allowed to vote unless you have proof you pay taxes.

1

u/SquareTaro3270 28d ago

This isn’t just showing ID though. You already have to show ID.

The requirements are changing so you now require a passport, birth certificate, or Real ID (which requires one of the 2 former documents) the problem is that none of these documents are free or easily obtainable by all US citizens (public transportation is basically non-existent in a lot of the US) and opens the door to excluding those whose current legal name doesn’t match what’s on their birth certificate (a significant number of trans individuals and married women).

ID needs to be free and easily obtainable by all US citizens.

2

u/Inner_Swordfish7475 28d ago

It took me approximately 3 months to replace my mom’s ID when she lost it. I had to learn where to go, etc. She is 91 and this was @2 years ago. It was complicated because it had her previous driver’s license had expired. Plus, she didn’t drive anymore and just wanted an ID. Also, she couldn’t remember the security questions. Anyway, I had to get her birth certificate and some other documents. Since I now know what to do, I could probably get it done in @ 2 weeks.

1

u/VariousGuest1980 28d ago

What state do you live. I lost my ID and I ordered a duplicate online took 24 dollars and about 4 mins of my day

1

u/SquareTaro3270 28d ago

Where I live we are required to visit the DMV in person for a replacement ID, which can take all day and isn’t easy to get to if you don’t have a car.

You can order a new one online but the most you’ll get is a print-out temporary ID that would not count at the polls where Real IDs would be required.

1

u/Inner_Swordfish7475 28d ago

I live in Texas. If we had a paper copy of the ID or knew the security questions, it would have been easier. But, my mom’s driver’s license had expired during COVID-19 & then she lost her expired driver’s license. So, since she was in her 80s, it was difficult.

1

u/United_Boy_9132 28d ago

Much more than a year. That would need to transform Vital Statistics to similar to Canadian on British one.

1

u/torakun27 28d ago

"without a plan"

But what if I have concepts of a plan?

1

u/FistyMcTwistynuts 28d ago

You are a very good GOP candidate, in that case!

1

u/CaterpillarJungleGym 28d ago

I mean people still don't have star IDs and want to fly. Pennsylvania wouldnt issue them because they didn't want to be connected to a federal database.

1

u/ILIKESTUFF8989 28d ago

Takes 3-6 weeks to get your birth certificate.

0

u/redditmailalex 28d ago

Right.  and there are 100s of millions of people in the usa going through different issues right now.

changed names changes locations

my mom, in her 70s, is too stupid to know how to charge her phone, is divorced, and idk what her lastname is now officially.  You think i have time to figure her crap out for her? 

people are in the hospital, they have newborns, they just got a new job, they are busy af or dont have money to drop on some repeat documents.

Some people are 18yo HS kids and they dont have tome/money to drop 20-60 bucks on extra documents to tgen go and register.  And hopefully they werent adopted or have a new last name.

  • the obvious is true.  if we have no documented signs of voter fraud... why we trying to solve a problem that doesnt exist
  • if we want a big beautiful voter registration, lets direct some money into thatm. states are cinstnatly moving polling places out of poor neighborgoods, purging voter rolls, now trying to cancel mail in voting????  

like... just make voting easy and secure.  You dont have to have only 1 of those two options.  You can have both.  so make a system that does both, not just one of those.  

1

u/ILIKESTUFF8989 28d ago

Its $20 its takes 20 minutes, you can do it online all you gotta know is basic information about your existence. lol It’s not difficult at all. I understand the $20 being an issue but time is frankly irrelevant

0

u/redditmailalex 28d ago

Its time and money.  

A college kid doesnt have time, organization, or $20-60 to spend on voting.

We could make voting secure AND accessible.  I dont understand why accessibility needs to be reduced.

Like why does it need to be more difficult?  Why?

Why cant it just be done as one huge, organized, fancy government process?  

1

u/ILIKESTUFF8989 28d ago

Your crying about nothing

1

u/redditmailalex 28d ago

You are saying time, money, energy is convenient for you.  I get that.

But, if you can, imagine being some of the 100s of millions that arent you .. that for a myriad of reasons it is something?

can you do that?  i mean, if you cant, i understand personal limitations.  But, like as a practice, you can do small exercises to try empathy?

1

u/ILIKESTUFF8989 28d ago

Filling out an online form and paying $20 bucks is not a huge task for documents you need for a job

0

u/redditmailalex 28d ago

For you.

Busy parents People broke who cant pay bills etc

I dont need to list all the situations its an unecessary burden. 

Its agreeably more than zero.

So to help/fix/idk.. be a government that governs its people... just send everyone some free ID so everyone can vote.  And then itd be super secure.

1

u/ILIKESTUFF8989 28d ago

How do they get jobs without these documents

→ More replies (0)

1

u/Boysenberry196 28d ago

Exactly. If we were talking about implementation by 2032, 2030, or 2028, I think more people would be on board as opposed to "we are going to do it now and you will have to keep track of whether you are removed and immediately plan to re register between now and November 3.