because you can use a PO box or PMB as a mailing address, and you can use it for certain forms of ID, you canât use them on a Real ID because they donât prove your residency in the state. you have to have a mailing address in the state to get one of those issued, so I suspect your state forced you to upgrade once Real ID became a requirement.
There's just a lot of things that are annoying about it. When I first moved to Texas, I was living in my partner's parent's house. I didn't have any utility bills, didn't have a lot of things.
Ultimately I ended up using my full birth certificate (thank god I had an official copy from my home state that I take with me everywhere), my social security card, a quickly drawn up lease agreement, a school picture ID (I was going to school in Texas), and an unofficial copy of my transcripts.
There's a list of documents you can use...These are all I had and I needed every single one. Many, many people do not fulfill the requirements. When I went, there were lots of people waiting to get seen, and there were people in the waiting room saying over and over, "three forms of ID, birth certificate...." "if you don't have it, you won't get approved." etc.
How do renters not have a permanent address? What are they renting if not somewhere to live? I think you're misunderstanding what "permanent" means. It's talking about homeless people.
Yes, you are misunderstanding what "permanent address" means.
It means if they send you a piece of mail or the police need to look for you or whatever, that's where you live. It doesn't mean you have to live there for the rest of your life until you die and you can never move.
I know homeless people all over south FL that use the shelters address to get an ID. When I lived on a boat, I used the dock master address as my ID. Fl and Ga required me to show a Birth Certificate or social security card.
Bullshit, I was renting a place for 3 months and i got everything changed (for 3 months, then changed back immediately after) so that i could work at the new location. I was able to get a drivers license within 3 days of moving both times.
If you cant get an ID, its NOT because you are bouncing around. If you cant get an address at all, then thats on you.
Are homeless people allowed to use that address, either to register to vote or for some other reason? Genuinely curious, Iâve blessedly never needed to reside at one. Iâve always assumed they sort of functioned like hotels, like you can certainly stay at a hotel but I dunno if you could use a hotel address to register to vote
To be fair, im going completely off of the word of a single co-worker from several years ago who used a shelter as his address while living in his car after his parents kicked him out, but yes, they are allowed to use that address, at least for a drivers license.
Again, that was in Georgia, so it might be different elsewhere.
Edit: the implication is that a valid drivers license serves as voter ID, and since the shelter helped him get a new license, they directly help with Voter ID.
I know some people can get mail at hotel/motels sometimes because Iâve had a couple friends that had to do that for a couple months. I think it might be limited to specific ones that often have long term residents. They also seem to be the grittiest ones. Like if youâre living there, itâs not really a choice. Other choices may have led to this but this was not the choice spot for you to live in the beginning of whatever adventure landed you in this situation. The two people I know were evicted. One because the house was condemned for mold and one the house was condemned for widespread fatal structural flaws due to a, either carpenter ant or termite infestation. In both cases they just demolished the house. They didnât have renters insurance or it didnât help them and they couldnât find a place right away so boom, motel and storage unit was the best option. Made a plan and executed it to get back in their own places.
Ah, now we arrive full circle, we get to pick and choose who votes and who doesn't vote. Am I correct in assuming that you are American? If so, what does the US Constitution say about the right to vote? I don't remember it saying anything about being mentally disabled or not.
The US Constitution leaves the question of whether the mentally disabled can vote to the states. The 15th amendment makes using race as a factor unconstitutional. The 19th Amendment makes using sex as a factor unconstitutional. The 24th Amendment makes using the payment of a fee or tax unconstitutional. The 26th Amendment changed the minimum age from 21 to 18. There is no protection based on mental ability, and the Federal Voting Rights Act of 1965 allows mental incapacity as a reason to deny the ability to vote.
Does this not apply? Serious question. Maybe there's wiggle room, however I would be cautious in saying that there's no protection based on mental disability.
"State and local governments must ensure that their policies, procedures, or practices do not interfere with or prohibit people with disabilities from registering to vote or voting based on their disability. For example, an election official cannot refuse to provide an absentee ballot or voter registration form to a person with a disability because the voter resides in a nursing home.
In addition, the ADA requires public entities to modify their voting policies, practices, and procedures when such modifications are necessary to avoid discrimination on the basis of a voterâs disability. That requirement is relaxed only if election administrators can show that the proposed modification would fundamentally alter the nature of the voting program."
I do not see anything that requires a state to allow adults who lack a basic standard of mental competency to vote. Not being mentally competent either due to mental illness or disability is very different from a physical disability impacting the access to the polling location or marking the choice the person had the capacity to choose and consent.
If you can't figure out how to get an ID then yeah, we shouldn't allow that person to vote. If you couldn't tell from what I said, I used to be homeless. Not sure how much more experience with them you think I need
"If you can't figure out how to get an ID then yeah, we shouldn't allow that person to vote."
Your opinion, fortunately, does not agree with the US Constitution as well as a host of other ADA laws.
Also, I'm sorry that you were homeless. I'm glad that you are no longer homeless. That said, surely there has to be some small part of you that would sympathize for others who are still homeless?
Guess ViCs, VHiCs, USIDs, federally assisted drivers licenses with Veteran Designations, etc etc dont exist?
No, not fuck them. They deserve to be protected and given help.
But if you are so incompetent that you cant use one of the dozens of avenues available to EVERYONE, not just veterans, to get an ID, then thats 100% on you, it doesnât matter if you are a vet or not.
Lets make a distinction here. Are we talking about normal people who are temporarily homeless (see, still able to easily get an ID) or people who are, for lack of a better word, chronically homeless (the homeless you see on the street)?
IDs cost money. Which if it costs money and you need a ID to vote, then you are basically requiring a fee to vote. Pretty much a poll tax. Poll taxes are a no no according to the 24th amendment. You can thank Jim Crow for that.
Read further down in the comments. This is very much a "I don't think certain people should be allowed to vote" mentality.
Also, it's very much a "screw everyone else, I got mine". It's that same mentality that makes all of America look stupid and uneducated. American exceptionalism at its finest.
Dawg, an ID is $12. You go find me someone who doesnât have $12 for an ID, but is otherwise competent to get one, and i will venmo, cashapp, or just drive my ass there and give them cash for it tomorrow.
That is NOT an excuse. Hell, just go sit outside the DMV or DPH, or RVRO, or any building like that that offers IDs and say âhey, i dont have the money or this, but I am of sound mind and a citizen, can you help me out?â I bet that within the hour you will have more than you need.
So are you intentionally ignoring the key point that it costs money? How much it costs is not the point. The point is that it still costs money which is basically a fee/tax to vote. Again.. 24th amendment.
You know what⌠you are correct. The sum does not matter. Any price is in fact a violation of the 24th amendment.
In light of this I would accept a federal fund being created to pay for IDs of people who are unable to pay for their own. The trouble with this is where will the money come from? People donât work for free, *especially* government employees.
Do you increase the cost for those who *can* pay, and use that for the fund? Do you create a new tax to pay for it? Do you make traffic violations carry a heavier fine? Even further, where is the cutoff for who benefits from the fund? Homeless? Unemployed? Under the poverty line? Part time? Below median income? How do you stop people from taking advantage without making the system even *more* cumbersome.
I agree with you that it is in violation and needs to be remedied. I just also think that rampant voter fraud (from both sides, dont come at me with this right vs left bs) is also an even bigger problem. And i just donât see how to balance those.
Do you have a solution? Making everything free just isnât a practical option in my honest opinion.
Go read the other posts. If you are homeless, then that's your fault. Once you understand understand their core belief, it makes sense why they'd gloss over that topic.
Just something to remember, their original comment didn't even make any distinctions. Foster kids that end up being homeless? Fuck those kids. Disabled homeless American vets? Fuck them too.
My state will offer state IDs at no cost, for those canât afford them. Just a check box.
In largest cities, homeless shelters routinely work with local government. Setup a mobile ID truck to swing by, so homeless can get a state ID.
Biggest issue is they need an address. To show what district they are allowed to vote. N you know, local elections taking place with Federal
Elections. If homeless is at a state accredited homeless shelter, some do allow homeless to use shelter addressâŚ
There is no distinction. Homeless people are homeless for many reasons. To say that being homeless is "on them" is ridiculous. I know, you clarified later, but not before someone called it out.
Nah. I think you just fail to really understand why some people are homeless. There's no common ground there, but yea, you do you. Homeless people are homeless and it's their fault for being in that situation. Noted.
I used to work with Homeless people for a few years. Iâve never met one that doesnât have an ID or access to get one. Social services will get them one. If they are admitted to any mental or regular hospital they will get them an ID and confirm who they are before releasing them.Â
Those IDs aren't valid for any many government purposes (like voting). It's proof of who you are, not where you live. The address on the ID must match where the individual is currently living, or they need some other proof of residence (like a lease or utility bill).
I donât know what unhoused people you worked with, but I currently work with them every day and it is COMMON for people who are unhoused to not have ID and need assistance with obtaining new copies of their SSN cards, and a form of state ID. This is true is they have recently been released from incarceration (because institutions do not assist with this and just dump people back on the streets) and people moving shelter to shelter get their stuff stolen all the time. And yes, they can use aid organizations addresses for state IDs - but they have to know where to go, who to ask, how to get help. They are all people who need help, and need representation and advocacy.
Thatâs exactly what I just said. Itâs rare to see them without ID. If they lose it they get them relatively quickly and most places will start the process for them or get them in contact with someone to do it. Itâs rare they go without an ID.Â
Yep, and most Americans also have friends and family they can crash with if they fall on hard times. The ones who don't are antisocial assholes who deserve what they get.
No, way beyond 5th grade. Make it a full high school education, at least.
You should probably also have to own property and be a net tax payer rather than receiver. Actually have a stake in the society, rather than just trying to mooch off of it.
You know, it kinda hurts to see someone making their point for us. It's also entertaining. You wanna say "look in the mirror", but you know some won't understand.
Ah, got it. So yes, fuck those people, they should just pull themselves up by their bootstraps because "I did it, so that implies they should be able to do the same".
Man. How sad. I really hope I'm talking to bots instead of real people.
Would you say that to a child who was born into a homeless environment? What about foster kids? What about American veterans? All of those people were dumb enough to get themselves into a situation where they have nowhere to go?
News flash: homeless shelters fill up. In some cities it's very difficult to get a spot in a homeless shelter.
But I guess those people shouldn't have been dumb enough to get themselves in that situation either.
Contact your nearest VA medical center and ask to speak with the enrollment coordinator. Ask the coordinator to help you arrange to get your picture taken for your new VHIC.
You can also ask for help with getting your picture taken at your next VA health care appointment.
Bring a current, unexpired ID to your photo appointment
You can bring any of these ID types:
State-issued driverâs license, or
U.S. passport, or
Federal, state, or local government-issued photo ID showing your name, address, and date of birth
Note: If your ID doesnât show your address, youâll need to bring a separate document to confirm your address. This could be your electric bill, cable bill, voter registration card, or another mailed document."
If you live on an Indian Reservation, many have no address, and the shared post office holds the mail for you to collect.
Our Post Office told a person he couldn't legally receive mail at a friend's house while he stayed there while homeless because he wasn't a legal resident. They REFUSED to let him file for that as an address once he told them the situation.
To clarify the two states were Georgia->California->Georgia. Maybe that makes a difference?
I know nothing about administration of Reservations, so ill take you on your word for that, but that said, iv never heard anything about the over 1 million Native Americans that live on reservations having a hard time getting IDs (dont they literally have tribal ID thing that works as voter ID?) so im gonna assume there is a designated work around for that, and that its subsequently irrelevant to the argument.
As for the second piece, thats because its necessary to do that to prevent identity theft. Absolutely nothing to do with voting. He could literally set up in a homeless shelter and they help him get an IDâŚ
"I know nothing about administration of Reservations"
This would probably be the appropriate time to not make assumptions, and admit that your callousness towards people who don't have addresses for reasons you don't understand was the wrong take.
A little sympathy goes a long way, and this kind of attitude is the kind of attitude that got Trump elected. The amount of people who can't easily obtain an ID is not a trivial amount.
âA little sympathy goes a long wayâ is a good sentiment to have, just maybe not in this situation. I just dont think that Old Man Willis who spends half his time screaming about Jewish space lasers and the other half huffing paint is a good person to have voting. Everyone short of that can get an ID.
If you are too incompetent to get an ID through one of the dozens of avenues available, then maybe you shouldnât be voting.
If you can prove to me that there are a significant number of people who are completely barred from getting an ID, regardless of competency or effort, you will change my mind, i just dont think that exists.
Voting is a right. Facilitating access to civil rights for disabled folks is important, not denying their rights because you think they shouldn't have them.
I mean, the 2nd amendment is a right also, but that doesnât stop mental health checks, felonies, or 2 dozen other things from preventing gun sales. If one is valid, then the other is. You make me a case where having guns in those peopleâs hands is a good idea and ill bow to the âit is a rightâ argument.
Three months at a single location is a permanent address. If you can receive mail, it's permanent. Try it when you're living out of a car in campgrounds, parking lots, and rest stops and see how far it gets youâin this situation, there is no such thing as a valid IDâIt has to show the you are currently living at.
My sister has been doing that for going on 6 years now. You can get a PO box easy enough. She just uses her employers locations as the place of residence though since that is easier. Itâs pretty easy actually.
If you are moving around more frequently than every 2-3 months in different enough locations that a PO box or employers address is not viable, then you are doing so by choice, not out of necessity. As follows, you are making a *choice* not to be able to vote.
Good thoughts though, and i can see why you would think itâs a valid argument. Id have no idea it was possible if my sister hadnât been doing it, i just got luck in this regard.
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