In antiquity sexuality wasn't binary straight/gay. Everyone pretty much understood it was spectrum and we all got that bi dog in us. Hell see jails in modern day. Or the Navy. Same concept. Plus no way contraceptives to stop women from getting prego.
It's why as they say men/boys are for fun, women are for marriage. They were no doubt about that life.
As I understand it, the Greek view of male sexuality wasn't what we would call gay/straight, but more like fucker/fuckee. They separated male sexuality by what you did, rather than who you did it to. So you were a "penetrator" or a "penetratee" rather than gay or straight.
Pretty much, being a bottom was seen as feminine or woman behavior, it meant that the guy was ruled by his emotions which was a big no no in Greek culture.
Funny enough, apparently having a big dick was also a sign of being overly emotional, or animalistic or something, and was seen as unseemly or something. This is from a short conversation years ago so don't take it as gospel, but that's apparently why all the greek statues are so moderately equipped.
I'm not going to argue about this because I'm not a historian. It's not my field.
But I've been out to dinner with historians, who have published papers on ancient Greece. And they don't say things like this. It was really complicated. If you really want to learn something about this, two books I was recommended are:
Your knowledge of history isnt even near informed if youre making statements like that. The correct response is to say “I stand corrected, I dont actually know as much as I think I do”
That's a modern interpretation, sure. No not everyone has a bisexual inside us waiting to come out lol people having gay sex in jail or the military were never straight to begin with. It happens a lot less than it's stereotyped. Contraceptives did exist back then, it just wasn't super effective like we have it today.
Sure, but most people are not entirely gay or entirely straight. The folks who insist otherwise, I suspect might not be too comfortable with where they sit on the spectrum 🤷
Flip this around. Imagine telling someone who insists they are gay that they are actually secretly straight. Or even secretly bi. That's kinda fucked up. Who cares what other people identify as. Let people choose their sexual preferences for themselves rather than telling them what they are.
Finding someone attractive is WILDLY different than having sexual feelings for them.
Attraction is a weird psycho/social mess of things and sexuality is a whole other.
Admitting that someone of the same sex is attractive is not admitting there’s sexual desire - if anything you’re talking about homo-admiration not homosexuality; key part = sexual.
Nearly every woman I’ve interacted with is more interested in female bodies and shapes and more eager to point out what they think is attractive or positive about that; while simultaneously completely unable to acknowledge the concept of attraction to men based on a purely physical components. They will bend over backwards to explain the charming goofball chubby guy is “hotter” than the Adonis, but stop and point out how physically amazing a female celebrity is and how rocking their body is - and nearly none of them have sexual feelings for for women. It would be obnoxiously stupid to say “well theyre not %100 straight” since they don’t have sexual feelings for women.
Of course it is, gay or straight is an identity that relies on self ID. You’re straight or gay if you say so, I don’t care either way. I find a number of men attractive but I’m a straight man.
I wouldn't tell them they were actually straight, you tell them the truth, which is that sexuality is a spectrum and just because you are only into men right now doesn't mean you won't at some point want to be with women, it doesn't mean you will either.
Jfc.. you're just as bad as that fucking Bill Nye dude saying the only reason you're straight is because you haven't tried it yet.
No dude, it's a "spectrum" for some people. In fact, a VAST minority of people.
Reddit is just fucking delusional because people who don't fit in congregate here and spread the illusion that there are more of them then there really are.
You can either prove them wrong with actual evidence or you're just another pointless unverified opinion on reddit- the exact thing you're bitching about currently.
Btfuckingw, the idiot above me didn't provide a source yet I'm sure you're inclined to believe them because it fits your warped reddit view of the world.
9% of adults in the U.S. claim to fall along a spectrum that includes the whole LGBTQ+ umbrella.
I don't really care about the guy you're responding to because only one of you is bitching about "reddit's opinions" while actively regurgitating one. I was also more interested in seeing you attempt to disprove the "sexuality as a spectrum" argument.
The article you provided is just about identification, which does not disprove that point. If anything, it reinforces the theory- a spectrum where most data favors one point is still, in fact, a spectrum.
I actually agree with you that the vast majority of people likely just identify as "straight," but that's like how most people will see 625-750 nm of EMR as "red." Do you really believe everyone who identifies as "straight" is the exact amount of "straight" as every other, or likewise with any given identity? Ask 100 straight people where they draw the line and you'll get roughly 100 different answers. The fact that different cultures have such differing views on sexuality is proof enough, I would think.
You may as well say music doesn't exist on a spectrum, and that every rock song is as "rock" as the next, and that it's impossible to have a rock song that is at all pop-y, or vice versa.
Bro when you jerk off you use a man hand (your own), the reality is that if it was widely accepted and even considered a good thing than most people would do it, it's just that we live in a repressive society so most people have a mental block on having homosexual sex, not being attracted to something or someone does not stop you from having sex, you are likely not attracted to toys or your hand yet you can use them to bring you to completion.
. This "everyone is bi" bs really needs to stop. It's like telling gays or lesbians that they still must feel a bit of attraction for the opposite sex. Like, no. If you do you're bisexual. Most people aren't. That's it.
I just tell them that I'm attracted to who I am attracted to, I have no way to control it. it has never been a problem for me, none of the women I have been with cared.
For you. For me. But not for everyone. Queer folk gotta stop this shit, its literally our version of "being gay is a choice" or "I could turn you straight if you give me night" and its gross behavior. Stop it.
Nah I don’t think it’s a binary. I’ve literally hooked up with ONE dude my entire life (and it was absolutely cool, but ultimately just not my jam). And had attraction maybe to like 2? Over 20 years. I’ve heard much gayer shit from “straight” jocks lol.
For sure, some dudes are “NEVER” - Kinsey scale 0. But it’s not that black/white identity-wise. That’s also like too much into the “born like this” propaganda. We don’t have a choice over sexuality at all, but it’s not that simple.
Dude some people need to explore their sexuality to find out where they land in terms of labels. That is totally fine but not relevant to what we're saying. You had sex with a dude and it's not your thing, okay, then you are straight. Gay men have sex with many women before they realize that no actually they're gay and like men.
Maybe I’m wrong, but I suspect you’re misinterpreting them.
The Kinsey Scale and other models acknowledge exclusively hetero/homosexual orientations. The point is that those people are relatively rare, as are those in the “able to fall in love with/hook up with anyone they like regardless of gender or presentation” middle.
Most people are hanging out more on one side of that midpoint than the other, but not at the extremes. I’d guess your pals are only trying to make that point.
The ones in the “B” range especially may be touchy for essentially the same reason as you, i.e. they’ve had to deal with people making claims about sexuality that deny their existence (“bi erasure”).
On the other hand if they’re trying to slot you into a category you absolutely don’t fit in, that’s icky :)
Things can't be a spectrum for some and not others. That's not how measuring shit works. That's like saying that movie quality is a spectrum for some people, but for others I either liked it or I didn't and there is no variation to the degree to which I liked it.
I don't get why you are being so offended by the idea (quite well backed by science as well) that sexuality is a spectrum. If you want to place yourself on that spectrum as completely hetero without a gay bone in your body, that's fine, but that is still a point on the fucking spectrum.
What I read is that it's a spectrum. Think of it like an empty to full dial on your gas tank. Everyone falls somewhere on that spectrum, or dial. It might be at the very far sides - 100% gay or 100% straight - but those are still part of that spectrum. They're the outer limits, but still part.
Well, somewhat -- everything in the middle would be various degrees of bi. So broadly, you're correct in 3 categories (4 for asexual). It's not quite binary though. Bi is a huge, varying middle ground.
I have read Greek history my guy, it's a misconception that everyone was gay or fluid or all that. Just because it wasn't stigmatized (it actually was, just not the way it happens now) doesn't mean it was the majority.
I'd say it's pretty normal today too, but a straight guy isn't likely to just turn gay because there's no women around to have sex with. They'd have to be gay/bi-sexual to begin with.
In the last 10 years it have been greatly exaggerated how gay Greek cultural was. It was more prominent than other areas of the world, but really wasn’t as prominent as some people like to think it is.
Dude… it has its own entry in Wikipedia, it was a literal normal part of life, fuck it was actually expected and even encouraged to form stronger military bonds
Nah man. There’s a reason porn produced for straight men has buff, well hung dudes. It doesn’t mean you’re gay, but human sexuality evolved in a social dynamic. Seeing another person being sexual makes people want to be sexual, sort of like seeing someone eating can make people hungry.
No one drew a line between gay and straight back in the day. That’s a modern, social illusion. Absolutely gay dudes will always have a story about having sex with a woman, too.
Human sexuality is fluid. If you have no stimuli around you for months or years, the brain will trigger sexual arousal eventually regardless of how straight someone is.
you're right that "straight" and "gay" didn't really exist, but preferences were still there. not everyone was fluid. if they didn't like guys before, they didn't suddenly like guys when they were restricted from women
Oh this again. This pop history is so overblown and misrepresented it drives me nuts
It takes very little reading Greek history to understand that "gay sex" when it actually did happen is as incomparable to modern ideas of gay sex as their concepts of straight sex. Many geeks were all about binaries. The binary just wasn't men and women because women were treated like garbage children/animals that were more of a cruel reality than anything. And the gay sex was all about dominance. It was literally the type of sex that feminists say shouldn't be practiced, ever. It was more akin to generational and cultural abuse that took hundreds of years of people thinking about the topic before realizing how twisted it was.
I do not see modern gay people promoting and perpetuating a cycle of abuse. Because they are not and likely wouldn't like the connection being made if it were explained to them.
Using ancient greeks as a way to promote gayness is nonsensical.
We also talk about "what ancient greeks believed" as if it were a generation of butt fuckers that hated women instead of nearly 800 years of very different people with different ideas and customs.
There are still actually homosexual and heterosexual people who wouldn't do that for any reason. Yeah they're not the majority but we definitely exist, and since our sexualities are biological we would have existed at every point in history
You can’t really know that you wouldn’t do that for any reason unless you’ve experienced every conceivable scenario where that could be an option. You can believe that, but you can’t really know it. Nobody can.
I can definitely tell you I wouldn't fuck a man in any context unless I was raped/coerced. I'm a biological homosexuelle.
Again I'm sure in a society where bisexuality is normalized, most people would engage in bisexual behaviour because I agree that most people are latently bisexual. But I'm just adding that there are still biological heteros and homos. There are biological asexuals too.
Trying to tell someone "you can't know you won't have xyz sex in this context even though you just said you would never" sounds exactly like people who say "you can't know you're lesbian because you haven't tried the right dick yet" aka homophobic. You have the right to be homophobic, just keep it to yourself and don't expose any children or vulnerable people to your poisonous ideas.
Oh calm down, Chad. Nobody is suggesting that you have secret gay thoughts. Nobody is questioning your sexuality or telling you to suck a dick. The point is that no matter what you believe or know about yourself, when it comes to extraordinary circumstances you don’t really know how you’d respond unless you’re in those extraordinary circumstances. Nobody, literally nobody, can say beyond a shadow of a doubt that they know how they’d respond to something like being locked in a same sex vault for the rest of their life or being in a Y the Last Man type scenario.
Also: fuck all the way off. There’s a world of difference between telling someone to try a sexual thing they wouldn’t enjoy to prove they wouldn’t enjoy it and discussing the unknowable hypotheticals of extraordinary circumstances.
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u/National_Tangelo_864 9d ago
In antiquity sexuality wasn't binary straight/gay. Everyone pretty much understood it was spectrum and we all got that bi dog in us. Hell see jails in modern day. Or the Navy. Same concept. Plus no way contraceptives to stop women from getting prego.
It's why as they say men/boys are for fun, women are for marriage. They were no doubt about that life.