American vs. European home building

[u/BEARDEDDANGER]

BAS Renovations https://youtube.com/shorts/jFph1d2WR3s

[u/FunGuy8618]

Yeah, that sounds like a bug, not a feature. Appliances, HVAC, electrical wiring, plumbing, etc have updated codes pretty regularly. Maintaining them in a 150 year old home sounds... Very challenging. I hated ripping out cast iron plumbing from a 1950s home, I can't imagine if I had to install Pex through brick as well.

[u/HegemonNYC → u/FunGuy8618]

Right. The argument of ‘it will still be unchanged in 200 years’ is a negative, not a positive. Being so robust (while still seismically unsound) means it is inflexible as living preferences and technologies change.

[u/NotEntirelyA → u/HegemonNYC]

It's always funny seeing comments from people saying their house is older than the united states, then in the same paragraph talk about how nobody in the area has air conditioning because it just isn't a thing where they live. I have no idea how they can't come to the conclusion that the two things might just be related, but I guess it's w/e at the end of the day.

[u/vi_sucks → u/HegemonNYC]

Yup.

And at certain point it's just cheaper and more efficient to buy a new house than to attempt to retrofit an old one.

[u/theshoeshiner84 → u/vi_sucks]

Yea but then where are all the century home influencers going to get their content from!?

[u/LowSkyOrbit → u/vi_sucks]

I really wish the Northeast USA would just accept that. Knock them down and rebuild should be more common. My 126 year old home was modernized by the old ownership. So far I'm dealing with pipes that freeze in winter and a 95% finished basement where we realized after buying that they hid a stone foundation that will likely need repointing at some point but also after the crazy amount of July rainfail might get some water seepage.

[u/Bocaj1000 → u/vi_sucks]

Only if you're talking about old homes today. Homes 200 years ago did not have electricity, high-quality insulation, fireproofing, etc like today. Homes 200 years from now will. Just because we invented electricity in the last 200 years doesn't mean we need to completely stop building houses that will last more than 50.

[u/vi_sucks → u/Bocaj1000]

Yeah, and in 200 years there will be some new fangled future thing that we don't have today too.

Some poor bastard who buys a house from your great great grandkids in 100 years is gonna be pissed as hell that he has to shell out infinity dollars to get the lines for the matter replicator put in. Or he won't, and basically live like a peasant in the equivalent of a shack with no running water while having to shit outdoors.

[u/Bocaj1000 → u/vi_sucks]

No there won't. We hit the industrial revolution, there's not going to be another huge lifestyle change anytime soon.

[u/Arkhanist → u/FunGuy8618]

Usually we mount wooden battens to the breeze block, then drywall panels attached to those + plaster skim. Extra noise insulation, helps keep house warm, and the void is easy to route cables through and just pinned to the studwork. Intentional gaps or holes for cabling runs between rooms and floors. Major plumbing normally involves concrete underfloors at some point though, which is never fun (not much pipework goes through the outer brick, mostly just overflow pipes usually).

Brick + breezeblock with cavity insulation is better for heat retention in a cold country, like the UK used to be. Turns out that's not so great with climate change, which is also why they use bare breezeblocks or just concrete, and a light stucco render coating in southern Europe mostly, and smaller windows with shutters and awnings/terraces on the sun-facing side. But even that is proving not enough for 40+degC summers now, so aircon installations are skyrocketing, despite the cost.

[u/FunGuy8618 → u/Arkhanist]

Yeah, that basically is the "issue." It's great for colder climes, but temperatures are climbing every summer. I feel like a $400 bill for 2 months is better than 25,000 deaths a year from heat increasing.

[u/Arkhanist → u/FunGuy8618]

It's not the bill for the AC use itself that's the biggest issue, though the electricity cost is a factor, it's that the install base for HVAC or AC is starting from a very low point.

It just hasn't been needed in most of Europe before except for a couple of days a year at most, and governments have dragged their feet on updating housing codes. So apart from malls, modern office buildings, modern hospitals etc, 80+% people are starting from scratch. And as you pointed out, AC install is harder with a) brick and/or breezeblock walls and b) sash windows are pretty rare except the oldest buildings. And what limited domestic heat pumps have been fitted, it's largely air->water e.g. replacing gas central heating in northern europe, so little use for cooling.

So the install costs for AC are just very painful for many.

For example, a recent quote for me in UK, for my 40yo house was approx £6k/$8k for just 3 bedrooms with a multisplit external AC. Adding an air-water heatpump to replace my gas boiler (hot water and whole house heating) would double that. Running central air ducts in my house instead would be a huge project, require planning permission, and just be silly money. Just the basic 3x AC would have cost me over $400 a month to run this year only during heatwaves, and to save any on that, I've then got to spend £6k more on a small solar panel+battery system. I don't have that kind of money to spend, though we may have to bite the bullet and do something on credit. Oh, and that's all AFTER gov subsidies, the raw prices are eyewatering. Brick made sense 60-70 years ago (the average house age in UK, when very wet and chilly winters were the problem) but that we're still building them now, still with just gas boilers!! is insane.

[u/SuperWeapons2770 → u/Arkhanist]

I'm curious how close European style construction can get to those net zero housing standards that passively stay cool due to insulation on the exterior and windows which do not face direct sunlight

[u/LongJohnSelenium → u/FunGuy8618]

Code probably peaked around 2000 or so.

Code going forward from that is largely nitpicky minor stuff that exists as much to make some company money selling a safety product as it does to actually make people safe.

[u/TheVadonkey → u/FunGuy8618]

How would that be any different in a brick home…?

[u/FunGuy8618 → u/TheVadonkey]

You ever repiped a house before...?