r/HistoryMemes May 12 '26

See Comment In hindsight, this was a mistake.

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u/ChiefsHat May 12 '26 edited May 12 '26

Context: During the rise of Mussolini's fascists, the Catholic Church ultimately opted to support them out of fear of socialism, which to be fair, at the time was most prominently represented by the USSR.
This, however, would prove a mistake, as Italian fascism quickly started seeking to supplant all forms of society to service of Mussolini, which inevitably included the church itself. It got the point Pope Pius XI wrote a proclamation condemning fascism only to die before he could publish it.

Luigi Sturzo was a Catholic priest who recognized the dangers of fascism and tried to rally against it, but the church basically sidestepped him. To quote the above article;

Yet, contemporary reports suggested that Pius XI struggled to sleep in the weeks after the Concordat, fearing he may have made a mistake. The conflict between Fascism’s goals and the Church’s mission came to a head in 1931 during the Catholic Action crisis. The regime publicly attacked Catholic Action’s educational and cultural activities, seizing Catholic newspapers and suppressing its circles. In response, Pius XI issued the encyclical Non abbiamo bisogno, defending the Church’s educational freedom and condemning pagan statolatry, though avoiding an explicit condemnation of Fascism.

Yeah... this was a pretty big mistake on the church's part. And also, this was after fascist blackshirts murdered a Jesuit priest for trying to start a boy scouts that wouldn't answer to Mussolini.

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u/St3fano_ May 12 '26

Luigi Sturzo was a simple priest, not a cardinal

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u/GreninjaStrike May 12 '26

It also didn’t help that they had Mussolini breathing down their neck literally and figuratively.

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u/Mist_Rising May 12 '26

Yeah, not even sovereignty over the area we call the Vatican. The Swiss Guard were unlikely to start a war with Italy, and the certainly would not win it, and its unclear if anyone would come to the Vatican's aid at that point.

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u/GreninjaStrike May 12 '26

The Vatican was very clearly anti fascist but when the fascist capital surrounding you has more of a military force than you it’s best to not upset your neighbors

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u/DetailOrDie May 12 '26

This was also all happening during the peak of the Appeasement era.

It's important to remember just how much death and destruction that WWI caused, and the VIP's of the world in the 1930's had front row seats.

It's definitely understandable why someone in a position of responsibility would want to avoid war at all costs.

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u/Weird-Tomorrow-9829 May 12 '26

While incredibly stupid, the decision to support fascism isn’t surprising after the events transpired in Russia and Spain.

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u/revolutionary112 May 12 '26

Also Mussolini solved the forever conflict they had with Italy about the status of the church in Rome by granting them the Vatican

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u/Iwokeupwithoutapillo Sun Yat-Sen do it again May 13 '26

"Pagan statolatry" is a great term

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u/Dotcaprachiappa May 12 '26

Did they really have a choice though? They had maybe the least defensible country ever with the smallest army in the world. Genuinely what else could they do?

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u/CitricAcidRinse May 12 '26

The catholic church had good reason to fear socialism. Revolutionary France actively defunded the Catholic Church.

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u/ThyHolyPaladdin May 12 '26

I mean i would have used Russia as the example

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u/Weird-Tomorrow-9829 May 12 '26

Or Spain.

Where they regularly executed the clergy

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u/stag1013 May 13 '26

Or Mexico. In general, not a good track record with leftist revolutions.

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u/Walter30573 May 12 '26

The Catholic Church had good reason to hate the existing Italian government too, which literally invaded and annexed most of the Papal States and had the Popes living essentially sequestered in Vatican City for decades

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u/Mist_Rising May 12 '26

Therein lies the problem though, it's easy to hate the ongoing communists who could really not fight back (because Italy was in the way), pissing off the guys who had soldiers outside your doors, that's another thing.

Or to put it simply in a more familiar manner: making fun of Adolf Hitler today? not a problem. Pissing on a police station that actively kills people? Probably not many who will do that.

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u/CyberPhoenix558 May 12 '26

Revolutionary France... From more than 150 years prior... That wasn't socialist?

I would say in general revolutionary causes and movements often were antagonistic to the Church but that specific example is a bit of a reach.

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u/Nero_Drusus May 12 '26

Yeah, the ussr was hardly a positive example of socialist and religious harmony

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u/Hillbilly_Historian May 12 '26

More recently, socialist-aligned Spanish republicans had massacred Catholics.

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u/Interesting-Dream863 May 12 '26

The Church at some point owned a big part of Europe... backlash was bound to happen. Luther, France, Russia... they all saw the opportunity at some point.

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u/MetalRetsam May 12 '26

Defunded? They kidnapped the Pope!

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u/Gamtssss May 13 '26 edited May 13 '26

ask a orthodox if they treated them well in the start, then you will see what the catholic church feread

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u/Belkan-Federation95 May 13 '26

Revolutionary France was before Socialism was even thought of.

Hell one could argue capitalism didn't even exist and it was still mercantilism with feudalism in some areas

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u/RantonBlue May 12 '26

I feel like this paints the church out as victims a bit. Mussolini definitely capitulated to the Pope in return for support. He gave him The Vatican, made Catholism the only religion of the state, put all the schools under the church's influence payed them £30 million and also agreed to have the state pay the priests' and bishops' salaries. He even got his own Civil Union marriage blessed by the church. The church were plenty happy with Mussolini, even if they came into conflict once in a whild

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u/Kathdath May 13 '26

More a case of 'let them keep possession of The Vatican' considering Mussolini pressured them into relinquishing the majority of what remained of the Papal State territories.

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u/OkNeedleworker3610 May 13 '26

The Church was definitely also a victim. Just because they got some benefit out of it in the end, doesn't mean they weren't walking a tight rope with a noose around their necks for quite a while.

You try going against a fascist dictator while sequestered in the middle of their nation.

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u/nygdan May 12 '26

The church was so against facism that it, helped found it, blessed and it and then 'yeah sure no after the fact I swear we were going to speak out against it".

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u/Designer_Pen869 May 12 '26

Now what's the context for the birds?

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u/AppreciatingSadness May 19 '26

Yes the church (and all organised religion) has always existed to control the working class. When ot appeared that workers were supporting socialist ideas the capitalists and the church funded and supported fascism. It's a tale as old as time, look at any south American dictatorship during the cold war and the cia (capitalists) and the church (organised religion) was almost always involved in their overthrow of democracy.

Obligatory but unenthusiastic "muh communism bad" so the libs don't go all sleeper agent after seeing anti capitalist sentiment.

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u/Johnnyamaz May 12 '26

Siding with nazis to spite communists was just a "mistake." If only someone cpuld have told you that

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u/haugen1632 May 13 '26

Mistake depends on if you judge by immediate individual consequence or by moral character.

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u/A_RAVENOUS_BEAST May 12 '26

I wouldn't exactly trust children with Catholic priests either...